Hi,

I develop both games for my own online budget label and through trusted publisher(s), plus occasionally I work as a freelance developer for larger companies from time to time. This is all documented on the Mutation Software history page on my site.

Basically I''m into everything so that I ahve all my bases covered so to speak. Sometimes there is not much work about so I concentrate on my own indie label products, then sometimes there is so much outside work I that I go and do that instead.

Hence the name Mutation Software (always changing into and doing something else really). A of now I am currently developing an all new game featuring the Dweebs, whcih is for release in August 2002 on our own budget label and budget retail.

That''s about the top and bottom of it.

Adrian Cummings (Proprietor)
Mutation Software
EMail: arc@mutationsoftware.com
URL: www.mutationsoftware.com
URL: www.dweebs.info

Since you guys seem to have experience in doing this stuff, I have a few questions to ask you:

1) What would the royalties be for a completely finished game (using the publisher for distribution only) in comparison with a partially finished game?

2) Would publishers be more likely to want to pick up on a finished game, rather than an unfinished one?

3) Would companies be discouraged if the project manager was only 15 when he started the project (I have been programming for 4-5 years now, and I know what I''m doing - I believe I can get the project completely done with the exception of audio content)

4) Where would I be able to find information on past negotiations (contracts, etc) between developers and publishers?

5) Where would I find information on past project team sizes, budgets, etc?

6) Once a reputation has already been established for one''s company, what are the chances a publisher would let them manage the internet part (ie. payment plans, servers, etc) of a game, and keep 100% of the profit made from it?

7) What are the chances a publisher would want rights to any sequels in the future (not expansions)?

I probably won''t haveto deal with this stuff for at least 2-3 years, but it''s never to early to start, right?

Hi,

I''m going to ''try'' and keep my answers brief here OK.

1)This is almost impossible to quantify beacsue it''s normally all based on royalties from sales, not many ''budget'' publishers will stump up up from cash these days either. Basically the bigger money is in the consoles and AAA title market, but then you''d be playing with the big boys !.

2)I would say yes from past experience.

3)Er, that is possibly not going to help - not sure !?.

4)As a seasoned developer who has already done it

5)As 4) but nobody normally likes to discuss budgets from my experience - on bigger deals it usually top secret information for the suits to know and for you to guess at !.

6)Very high if you are going to be for real about your business activities and can show you are up or it.

7)Good to very high if the original title did well for them of course.

Remember publishers are in it to turn a profit and are usually less bothered about the stuph you are going to be botherd about You make them a good game you get payed accordingly - unless you get ripped of that is, but then thats another ball game (some consider in this business at least that it''s a right of passage into the busines if you''ve been ripped off ! - I don''t, I think anybody that takes anybody for a ride should have their bum cut off !!!).

These are my opinions only and hope they help a bit anyway

Adrian Cummings (Proprietor)
Mutation Software
EMail: arc@mutationsoftware.com
URL: www.mutationsoftware.com
URL: www.dweebs.info

Well I was thinking that if I make good on this game, I might take it to the console market (it''s $100k for the XBox SDK, right?)

Also, I didn''t really get what you meant in #1. Are you saying they wouldn''t pay me more? Because if they won''t, I''d rather have them take care of the audio.. simply because I don''t think I''ll be able to find anyone for it :\

And one more thing.. I would really like to have someone I can ask questions in the future (when I''m in the stage of actually pitching my game), would you by any chance have ICQ, MSN, or AIM? If not, then I guess e-mail will haveto do

Thanks for you help, it''s really appreciated.

quote:Original post by hello2k1
1) What would the royalties be for a completely finished game (using the publisher for distribution only) in comparison with a partially finished game?

This varies heavily. We pay 35% of the retail price to developers (i.e. $14 out of a $40 sale), but this is largely because our profit margin is so high with electronic distribution. With a typical brick and mortar publisher, I''ve typically seen royalties of 10-20% of net revenues, which is the wholesale price minus lots of publisher-favoring deductions. You might see something in the range of $1 to $5 per copy sold. Again, this varies heavily. Very hot developers may see higher royalties than this. There are limitless ways to structure a deal.

For a completely finished game, there may be no advance to recoup, and the publisher''s risk is lower. So you''ll generally see more generous royalties, but the publisher still has many other risks -- they have to put up the cash to market the title, for instance.

quote:
2) Would publishers be more likely to want to pick up on a finished game, rather than an unfinished one?

Yes, of course, because the publisher''s risk is lowered. In our case we won''t even look at a game until it''s hit beta.

quote:
3) Would companies be discouraged if the project manager was only 15 when he started the project (I have been programming for 4-5 years now, and I know what I''m doing - I believe I can get the project completely done with the exception of audio content)

One major drawback is that minors can''t legally enter binding contracts (at least in the U.S.). There may be legal ways around this, but I think that''s going to make it hard to get a deal. I would also be concerned about the maturity level of someone that young. Technical skills are important, but there are other factors that are far more important to me as a publisher, such as personal management skills and professionalism. I also don''t know many teenagers who understand the big picture of the developer-publisher relationship very well (they tend to be very egocentric). Nevertheless, some people this young can be very mature and can do excellent work.

quote:
4) Where would I be able to find information on past negotiations (contracts, etc) between developers and publishers?

I think the best source for this is a good software industry attorney. I''ve picked up lots of good stories and advice from my attorneys over the past several years. A developer or publisher may be involved in only a handful of deals a year, but some attorneys have been through hundreds of such deals. An honest attorney isn''t going to give you the details of specific negotiations, but you''ll still come away with good advice.

quote:
5) Where would I find information on past project team sizes, budgets, etc?

Postmortems... you can find these in each issue of Game Developer magazine. I don''t know of any centralized source for this info.

quote:
6) Once a reputation has already been established for one''s company, what are the chances a publisher would let them manage the internet part (ie. payment plans, servers, etc) of a game, and keep 100% of the profit made from it?

This is question is too general, so I really can''t answer it. I can see it going either way depending on the details.

Based on this question, one piece of advice I will give you is to beware overgeneralizing. Game publishing is a very complex business, and there are limitless ways to structure deals. The key is to work out deals that are win-win for the developer and publisher (and ultimately the players as well). What the rest of the world is doing really doesn''t matter as much as people think -- when you work with a publisher, strive to work out a deal that meets your needs and the publishers.

quote:
7) What are the chances a publisher would want rights to any sequels in the future (not expansions)?

A very general question again... so no way to answer without the specifics. Some publishers will always want these rights. Others (like Dexterity Software) feel the developer should be allowed to retain this rights.

quote:
I probably won''t haveto deal with this stuff for at least 2-3 years, but it''s never to early to start, right?

I started learning to program when I was 10. I''m 31 now. When I look back I actually feel most grateful that I played so many hundreds of games growing up. As a publisher that game-playing experience gives me a good eye for what''s fun and what isn''t.

Technical skills will go obsolete quickly, so I wouldn''t worry about them so much at your age. What I''d focus on is learning personal management skills. If you can learned to be really well organized, for instance, that''s a skill that will serve you forever, regardless of technology.


Steve Pavlina
Dexterity Software
www.dexterity.com

Hi,

I have no idea about XBox development costs and licencing - sorry... but at a guess I would say you were in the right ball park possibly but this goes beyong the scope of this topic at least.

If your looking at XBox you would be looking at a ''team'' project for sure, if your looking at budget PC then forget the word ''advance'' unless your games is quite cool and the publisher really wants it and can package it for retail.

I''m always available to answer any questions that may help new developers who are just starting out - I must insist though that this is via a forum like this or by direct email only - else I''d just never get a days work done heh

Adrian Cummings (Proprietor)
Mutation Software
EMail: arc@mutationsoftware.com
URL: www.mutationsoftware.com
URL: www.dweebs.info

The Xbox''s development kit is $10,000

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ClownKeep