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Trexmaster

3D game programming contest organization

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No one has done it yet so I''ll do. This thread is for those who have ideas on how we could run a game contest that would bring out things a little more ... consistent than demos. When everyone come to an agreement, we should propose to NeHe or GameDev to host the contest. The game would have to be developped by a team and not just by one person (I don''t think one alone could even produce something from scratch approaching the state of a quite complex game within a timeline of less than a year). So go on and post your ideas !

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Well, we have talked about this in the LOTR thread so everyone who missed that, read it now :D It''s a nice idea to do and we should certainly do it..

But what is going to be te goal for the contest? Should we remake an old game.. Should we make a new game. Should al teams work on the same kind of game?

And about the teams.. how do we organize such a team. One leader who picks the other members?

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The thing about remaking old games is that the game already exists. As a developer it is easier to create a design document and as a programmer it is easier to see your goals. There are also many fan sites where you could get music, concept art and so on.

I suppose the contest should be open to both remakes and new games. That should make it more interesting.

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Maybe the contest can be about the team that makes the best, coolest and most 1337 TETRIS CLONE that is to find!

Atleast I think every group has to remake the same game, because otherwise it would be kinda unfair. For example if one group was to remake Pong and the other was to remake Doom

Well anyway I just wanna say that this is a great idea, even though it might be real hard to perform, I surely want to be in it!

CUselessStuff::NiftyQuote();

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I think limiting the contest to just one game would reduce the number of entries.

We have to keep in mind that this really isnt a contest. Its more like a competition to see who makes the best product. The difference is that there is no prize (if teams are as big as 12 people this may be impractical).

What if NeHe posts all entries after some deadline on his site, with all the source. After all the entries are in, we get some audience to test the games and figure out whose is best. Then the best entry gets included on future NeHe cds or on some completely new cd.

This way NeHe can get some funds from our work and we get more tutorials from the competition and any new stuff NeHe decides to do with his funds.

Win Win situation

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quote:
Original post by llvllatrix
I think limiting the contest to just one game would reduce the number of entries.



Yep. And with more than one game we could say to other teams : "Hey it would be cool if your game include/allow this (anything) !"

quote:
Original post by llvllatrix
We have to keep in mind that this really isnt a contest. Its more like a competition to see who makes the best product. The difference is that there is no prize (if teams are as big as 12 people this may be impractical).

What if NeHe posts all entries after some deadline on his site, with all the source. After all the entries are in, we get some audience to test the games and figure out whose is best. Then the best entry gets included on future NeHe cds or on some completely new cd.

This way NeHe can get some funds from our work and we get more tutorials from the competition and any new stuff NeHe decides to do with his funds.

Win Win situation


That''s a great idea as a reward for the contest !
I just love it. Do someone else agree ?

It is possible to code a game from scratch in less than three months but you have to be in from the beginning of the contest and to have a team developping the game, not just one person. So here is a possible team organization for 9/15 persons :
- 1/2 graphics engine programmers (one if he/she is really good, two otherwise)
- 1 sound engine programmer
- 1 input programmer
- 1/2 game logic programmer (depends on AI complexity)
- 1 network programmer (if the game has networking capabilities)
- 1/2 coordinator (to put everything up together)
- 1/2 graphics designer (depending on graphics complexity)
- 1/2 3D modeler (if needed)
- 1/2 music/fx creator

I think teams might not be composed of more than 15 members unless the coordinator/leader has a strong experience in management.

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llvllatrix, I think your idea is really good

And about how many and what kind of people you are going to put in the team. The list Trexmaster gave is pretty good

But maybe it would be cool to put on every task a good and a newb programmer. So you can learn really much...

And reprogramming an old game, it''s true that you have much fan sites and that sort of things so it could be an idea

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quote:
Original post by llvllatrix
After all the entries are in, we get some audience to test the games and figure out whose is best. Then the best entry gets included on future NeHe cds or on some completely new cd.



Or perhaps, by then, a snazzy new DVD, or perhaps even those new FMD discs I''ve been hearing about (14Gigs)!

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I wonder what Nehe thinks about this?....
(apart from obviously a little annoyed at the mention of another contest after the marathon of the other)

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Why would he be annoyed.. where very happy with the LOTR contest.. we even found it so great that we want to start another one..

If nehe don''t wants to then we host it at another place.

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Giving a task to a good and a newb should effectively allow each one to learn a lot.

What about making new versions of shoot''em up ? I used to have a lot of this kind of games on my old Atari 520 and I had a lot of fun with them (specially the Xenon series). And this kind of games doesn''t need networking which means a little less work

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I wouldnt join this competition if it was a team-based. I dont want to have to trust others that I hardly know to do a good job.
They only teams I could work in are when I know the teammates irl, or knew them _very_ well. If I post a result on a competition I want to feel that its _my_ work being judged.

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Mordred, your point of view is understandable but are you sure you can make a full game in 2/3 months ? I don''t think many people can do it.
And there is no obligation as how the teams would be organized yet, so maybe you could enter the contest with some friends you know you can trust. But it seems that the one thing everyone agrees with is that the contest has to be team based so we have something really different from what has been made til now (i.e demos with less interactivity than games and lonely work).

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Sadly there arent alot of good programmers from where I come from annyway. You are right that its hard to complete a game in that amount of time, but where not talking about quake4 here are we?

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The contest is not about making Quake 4. But the contest is about working in a team, learning from eachother, working together and making something you could not do on your own...

Mordred, you will get the credits you deserve When you work in a team and you make something like the AI then that should be mentioned in the credits...

Working together on some project looks really cool to me And who nows, with the right team you could make Quake 5 :D

I will certanly join the contest when it''s started

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I think the idea of a team contest is a great idea.
It seems like that''s the way the majority of project''s are developed in the industry.

Unlike some of you, I don''t know enough people to put together a team.

From experience, I can understand mordred''s position - you don''t know what to expect from people you don''t know, but you know what you are capable of and how you work.

I would be interested in setting up a kind of trial, or "get to know you", mini project in which people could get a quick feel for other''s abilities.

For example, focusing on a subsystem that would be common in many games/genres - user interface or tools.

If designed well, whatever work we do could be reused for any project.



"Remember, wherever you go, there you are."

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We should start organizing the competition soon. I think we should start around the end of june and submit our entries at the end of august or perhaps durring christmas. Someone should also tell NeHe of this idea for a contest. He should have a few insites into this.

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quote:
Original post by Scheermesje
Why would he be annoyed.. where very happy with the LOTR contest.. we even found it so great that we want to start another one..

If nehe don''t wants to then we host it at another place.


hey i am only j/k

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I think a contest like this would balance out the playing feild too, As you have experts vs experts (as main coders) and newbies versus newbies (as menu/sound/input etc coders) so it *should* (in theory) make people excel, and it is my firm beleif that if we go ahead with this, as long as we run it right, we will really be amazed with what comes out of it.

Even after the contest had finished, a well motivated team (or some of it) may keep working on it tell it is a publishable game

When Team fortress 1 come out for quake back when ever, i was soooo excited because that was the first real team vs team game, it was so fun and inspiring to play along side (and against) other humans, some better then you, some not....

That is the sort of excitement i feel now, I just hope it goes somewhere.....

i for one will give it 100%

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The problem with that concept is simply NeHe Productions.
The site is about OpenGL, but the whole-game-contest involves lots more like AI, sound, input, network, and whatever.
I think the idea of a game contest is good for gamedev in general, but no for NeHe especially.

But a demo perfectly fits the NeHe Productions site : no network, no AI (almost), no input (except ESC), and very basic sound only, BUT huge work on graphics and a bit of animation.

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Good point.

Perhaps we could run this competition through gamedev.net. This would encourgae more than the NeHe audience to participate.

However, I would like our work to benefit NeHe in some way or another. He has already comitted much of his free time to us already. It would be nice to return the favor and alowing NeHe to publish the best game on his cd should do the trick by increaseing cd sales.

I bet there are many of you out there who attribute much of their developement skills to NeHe''s site. I know i do. I think this is the best way to say thanks.

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Perhaps one solution would be for the Graphics system/engine to be a combination of the techniques used by Nehe.

All of the entrants could use an 3D engine or system by Nehe.
Each team could enhance the engine if they wanted to, or they could spend their time focusing on some of the other issues - Networking, AI, Input.

In this way everyone would be using something in common, it would
provide a forum for Nehe''s work, and each team could focus on implementing a game?

Just a suggestion, I''d like to know if that is even possible at this point. I know NeHe covers a wide range of 3D, OpenGL applications, but has he incorporated into one engine that others can use?

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