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Nomax5

FUN is a chemical and it ends in INE

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I figured an understanding of FUN is a prerequisite for designing games so I’ve done a little research. Fun is the natural release of endorphins by various parts of the body and they make us feel good, they are designed as the reward for advancement. The way I see it there are 2 types of fun. Active Fun: One way to have fun is to do a task that is challenging but within our abilities, if this task is to hard we get anxious if to easy we get bored. When the task is just above our current abilities but achievable then the ine’s begin to flow, we are unaware of anything but the task in hand, time fly’s by, we are exhilarated by our competence. Passive fun When I watch a movie or a ball game I’m not been challenged but I’m having fun, this is because I am role playing, I am the goal scorer, the hero, the person in danger. Our subconscious is happy to model these scenarios because it is a method of learning and we are rewarded with our fix. It is easy to see the active fun in a game which concentrates on keyboard or controller skills, where ever more complex and precise hand movements are needed. For a game to be fun in the passive sense it must have a sliding scale of challenge with a visible indication of advancement. The player must have an affinity with their character where the players emotions are linked to their characters, the stirring of emotions is I believe essential for a passive fun game. I am of the opinion that the player should not have full control of their character, indeed the character should have a mind of it’s own, player character AI. What do you think?

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quote:
Original post by Nomax5
For a game to be fun in the passive sense it must have a sliding scale of challenge with a visible indication of advancement. The player must have an affinity with their character where the players emotions are linked to their characters, the stirring of emotions is I believe essential for a passive fun game.



What about something like FF7 (RPG), you do have control over most of the important player actions, however cut scenes/character interaction allows the characters to be developed and an emotional attachment to be made. There also games like lemmings and worms that have a strange tendancey to cause the player to become emotionally involved with the character (I think thats because the graphics are so small that most of the personality is filled in by the player, rather than being defined by the artist who drew the sprite)

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quote:
Original post by Nomax5
For a game to be fun in the passive sense it must have a sliding scale of challenge with a visible indication of advancement. The player must have an affinity with their character where the players emotions are linked to their characters, the stirring of emotions is I believe essential for a passive fun game.
I am of the opinion that the player should not have full control of their character, indeed the character should have a mind of it’s own, player character AI.



Nice analysis, but I''m not so sure I like your last idea. In general, I think you can experience passive enjoyment by observing positive situations in the game world that you''ve previously become attached to. Part of what drives our attachment to fictional stories / movies, or makes us cheer for our side, is, I think, some process of identifying with a group or situation similar to our own. So you can still be having "active fun" while being in complete control of your character, but experiencing "passive fun" by seeing your AI mates or team members succeed ("hurray for our side!").





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Just waiting for the mothership...

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Why didn''t you post this in the other Fun thread?

I don''t agree with the role-playing aspect of passive fun. Sometimes it''s just empathy, or shared goals. And I certainly don''t agree with the last point. Removing control from the player removes aspects of ''game-related fun'', leaving you with just the kind of fun you get from books or whatever.

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well, fun isnt everything.

In an rpg I want to transorm the player into the character, not from a some crazy first person view. I want the player to feel what their character feels, to completely rebuild a person. I wanna make an RPG that could make me cry. I think this would all be done through relating and identifying comon themes everyone experiences with the rash and non-player controled (the characters) reactions to these.

a fix on the above, I dont mean all actions should be scripted or calculated, I want some level of interaction and responsibilty aswell. Im against completely linear stories.

I think the player should be faced with choices they would never want to have to make in real life. I dont care if it bothers the player, then end result should be great. Like that other thread about sacraficing your characters life for something else, I want that level of involvment, the difference would be that at this late point in the game, the desicion would be your characters, it would be yours, but you will have become your character and would weight the outcome as he would.

To anyone who read TS&TF (the sound and the fury), faulkner really creates characters in my mind. I felt Quentins Pain, I understood Jason''s anger. Its this I want in a game, I want to make an rpg that can make myself cry.

Fun isnt everything.

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quote:
Original post by Nomax5
When the task is just above our current abilities but achievable then the ine’s begin to flow, we are unaware of anything but the task in hand, time fly’s by, we are exhilarated by our competence.


I wonder then, if this state of endorphine flow is what we all also know as the "sweet spot" for programming. That could also explain why finding that state of mind is also so difficult...

-Solstice

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