Is it episodic if it uses the word episode or act? Like diablo 2? Or is any quest considered an episode? Is anything between the cut sceans an episode?
Cause really if its an rpg it has to episodic.
What I understand from this post is that by episodic it is meant "incomplete game". This is a bad idea, I rush through games, play all day when i first gem em, a game without an end? Not an rpg.
Sure each episode has some closure. But they all should advance torward one point, and IF i play allot ill have to wait. THis also kind of sucks cause I always liked my side quests marked as optional.
Episodic SCRIPTING of scenarios.
quote:Original post by Kilj
What I understand from this post is that by episodic it is meant "incomplete game". This is a bad idea, I rush through games, play all day when i first gem em, a game without an end? Not an rpg.
I''ve seen this many times with my college roommates. Currently the fad is Diablo 2, one has already finished the game over the weekend, and the other is sure to before finals is over. I myself, am not a "hard core" gamer in any sense of the word. I have yet to finish *any* of the RPGs I''ve started since FF7 in 1999.
There are however, RPGs with *don''t* end. Swords and Circuitry defines these as Non-terminal RPGs and include most, if not all, MMORPGs -- PSO, Ragnarok Online, and so on. Now, most of these games focus on the social factor rather than the storyline itself (which IMHO tends to be weak).
A story based RPG that doesn''t end, that is bad. Much like a sitcom that''s well past it''s prime, the network keeps funneling money into it even if it does suck.
-Solstice
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"...I was given three choices, the earth, the stars, or..."
I took it to mean episodic as in each segment is complete unto itself, but that the storyline is continuous...
Kind of like stand-alone X-Files eps within the context of the greater mythology...
But, that may not be what Ketchaval had in mind...
R.
Kind of like stand-alone X-Files eps within the context of the greater mythology...
But, that may not be what Ketchaval had in mind...
R.
Author
Well the thing is, there are two ideas here. The one that I wanted to lay some emphasis on being that sections of games could be done so that they work like a TV show intro, increase in dramatic tension, resolution (and reflection on what has happened / consequences).
The other idea is Kieron Gillen's , and so I'll give you a link to the page I am referring to so that you can read it in his own words.
http://www.deusex-machina.com/cassandra-project/theory-mission-statement-one.asp
[edited by - Ketchaval on May 10, 2002 6:42:04 AM]
The other idea is Kieron Gillen's , and so I'll give you a link to the page I am referring to so that you can read it in his own words.
http://www.deusex-machina.com/cassandra-project/theory-mission-statement-one.asp
[edited by - Ketchaval on May 10, 2002 6:42:04 AM]
quote:Original post by Tacit
In many ways, it''s no different from a MMORPG where you pay a monthly fee for access to the game. This pricing scheme doesn''t seem to have deterred too many gamers, or at least, those who haven''t been deterred are enough to keep the better examples of these games going.
I think it''s totally different, because you don''t feel like you''ve ''missed'' anything by coming into an MMORPG late. Whereas the episodic games mentioned in this thread imply (although I may be wrong) a very distinct story where you will miss out if you don''t go back and play earlier versions. Even if each episode is fairly self-contained, you''ll still miss out on a lot of history and characterisation if you don''t play the earlier ones. The best you could hope for is something along the lines of a computerised soap opera which is shallow enough to let you get into it quite quickly.
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Yes, you might feel like you''d missed something, which is why you''d want to go and buy the earlier episodes.
Knowing that there were 9 books in the Wheel of Time series didn''t seem to stop people from starting the series, and you''re not going to start it at number 9 are you?
If it were, to use a TV analogy, like 24, yes, you might feel like it was difficult to get into the show if you''d missed any of the previous episodes, even though they do a pretty good job of summarizing the events so far.
If it were like X-Files, where you have an overall mythological arc but stand-alone eps within that structure, I think it could work.
In my opinion, episodic content would give you an oppotunity to develop characters with a lot more depth, rather than less as you''ve suggested. But I do agree the idea poses certain logistical challenges. Not insurmountable ones, but they are there.
I think it will just require a certain shift in people''s attitudes towards gaming. Games are structured the way they are largely because it allows developers to take advantage of people''s game IQ. You might introduce a new structure that does things differently, but there always has to be a first.
Just the way I see it...
Knowing that there were 9 books in the Wheel of Time series didn''t seem to stop people from starting the series, and you''re not going to start it at number 9 are you?
If it were, to use a TV analogy, like 24, yes, you might feel like it was difficult to get into the show if you''d missed any of the previous episodes, even though they do a pretty good job of summarizing the events so far.
If it were like X-Files, where you have an overall mythological arc but stand-alone eps within that structure, I think it could work.
In my opinion, episodic content would give you an oppotunity to develop characters with a lot more depth, rather than less as you''ve suggested. But I do agree the idea poses certain logistical challenges. Not insurmountable ones, but they are there.
I think it will just require a certain shift in people''s attitudes towards gaming. Games are structured the way they are largely because it allows developers to take advantage of people''s game IQ. You might introduce a new structure that does things differently, but there always has to be a first.
Just the way I see it...
quote:Original post by Tacit
Yes, you might feel like you''d missed something, which is why you''d want to go and buy the earlier episodes.
Knowing that there were 9 books in the Wheel of Time series didn''t seem to stop people from starting the series, and you''re not going to start it at number 9 are you?
That''s the optimistic approach
I would take the pessimistic approach, which is that people won''t bother with the later ones unless they can get the earlier ones. And I still think supply of the earlier ones will be a problem. Books have longer shelf lives than games. I can find books from the 80s without any trouble, but it took me four years of searching to find a copy of the game Realms of the Haunting, starting 2 years after it first came out and only finishing last Christmas because I came across a semi-legal export in a bargain bookshop, of all places.Only two times have I ever bought a sequel when I didn''t have the original: I got Matchday 2 back in the late 80s for my Amstrad, and I got Ultima 7 back in 94 or so. And no, I never went back to get the prequels.
I doubly wouldn''t start the Wheel of Time series at the 9th book, as they''ve been unreserved drivel since about the 6th book, if not earlier. But that''s for another thread...
quote:I think it will just require a certain shift in people''s attitudes towards gaming. Games are structured the way they are largely because it allows developers to take advantage of people''s game IQ. You might introduce a new structure that does things differently, but there always has to be a first.
Do you have any other examples of where a shift in the audience''s attitude has worked? I mean, you could argue that turn-based strategic wargames or text adventures are the model for the future, assuming that people''s attitudes towards gaming change.
It''s not really saying very much. [ MSVC Fixes | STL | SDL | Game AI | Sockets | C++ Faq Lite | Boost | Asking Questions | Organising code files ]
quote:Original post by Kylotan
That''s the optimistic approach
I agree, except if you release them with enough regularity, say a new episode every month or two, then you avoid this issue. Also, if you make the games available for download online, availability won''t be a problem. Besides, I can go down to EB and buy a copy of System Shock 2, Half-life, or Command & Conquer right now if I like, and those games are years old. If the publisher is willing to pay the stocking fee, the store will stock the game. And if the game is popular enough, the publisher will pay the stocking fee to keep it there...
quote:
Do you have any other examples of where a shift in the audience''s attitude has worked? I mean, you could argue that turn-based strategic wargames or text adventures are the model for the future, assuming that people''s attitudes towards gaming change.
I''m talking more about methodology and mechanics rather than drastic changes in gameplay. This kind of episodic content wouldn''t be that difficult for people to get their minds around since it''s exactly the model they''ve become accustomed to from decades of TV shows. Another example would be the MMO games. The introduction of a persistent online world opened up a lot of new possibilities for gamers, and required a kind of rethinking of all the things we''ve come to take for granted, things like the game not continuing when I turn off my computer.
R.
quote:Original post by Tacit
Another example would be the MMO games. The introduction of a persistent online world opened up a lot of new possibilities for gamers, and required a kind of rethinking of all the things we''ve come to take for granted, things like the game not continuing when I turn off my computer.
In all fairness though, the initial audience for MMO games was almost entirely comprised of roleplayers who had been asking for persistent worlds all along, and MUDders who already had been playing such games since 1979 and who were just given graphics on top.
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True true...but it seems their ranks have been given a steroidal injection thanks to the willingness of non-RPGers to jump on the bandwagon, wouldn''t you say?
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