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Currently we are making a RPG game.. it is consisting of a previous project done by a company before us. It is using Reality Factory to create our levels, MilkShape to create our Models and using VC++ to code the game. I am not usally a coder and learning coding through books which I think is going good. i also got a book from LaMoth which is like 600pages which i start after. The main question im getting at here is learning VC++ 6.0 going to be able to handle the RPG platform from Reality Factory and Milkshape models?... This learning project is going to be a few weeks to a month of learning.. im wondering also if it is better to learn the C Sharp code ... NE input would be great... Thanks Paul Donald Techno Organics http://technoorganics.netfirms.com ----------------------------- Im a Noob but i am willing to learn -----------------------------

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I'd say Visual C++ can handle just about everything, it's the most common tool for game programming nowadays... except I don't know anything about C Sharp.

[edited by - Narcus on May 4, 2002 12:20:43 AM]

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Ok thanks.. i''ll continue to stick w/ VC++ 6.0 for now... does neone recomend using the MFC to do programming.. it seems VC++ in 24 hrs is what teaches it but then LaMoth says to do it other wise...




thanks for input

Paul Donald
Techno Organics
http://technoorganics.netfirms.com

-----------------------------
Im a Noob but i am willing to learn
-----------------------------

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If your game runs in full screen you won''t have to learn MFC. However, you might need MFC to develop your game''s tool. Then again, using Win32 by itself is better. Or you could use borland builder or visual basic.

You can do just about anything game related with C++ and MSVC++. There isn''t any need to learn C# or any other languauge.

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Ive had a look at C#, and ill agree that it isnt the choice for game programming right now. But is a VERY fast and easy way to make window GUI applications(VB might be easier, but C# syntax is VERY close to C++), so it might come in handy for programming editors and other development tools for games.

And having learned it is probably a benefit as it might become an interesting game programming language in a few years(DirectX 9 will accessable directly from C# as far as i understand).

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quote:

You can do just about anything game related with C++ and MSVC++. There isn''t any need to learn C# or any other languauge.



I''ll agree on you can do anything game related with C++, but the second part I won''t take as being entirely true.

Most software companies make their games in C/C++(fast, nuff said), and the tools are made using other languages which are drag-and-drop based, purely because its easier, and they don''t need the performance kick that c++ gives, instead, they need the creation speed that VB and Delphi, etc give.

So saying there is no need to learn another language is a bad idea, there are reasons more than one language exists.

Some reasons for learning not just c++

1. Ability to develop tools for your game easily, quickly and with less fuss.

2. Scripting languages, LUA, Python, VBScript, java-script are all popular in game scripting, and are on the increase.

3. Wider scope of programming knowledge

You never see a carpenter trying to do the different jobs with a hammer, same idea with programming, certain problems can be done better with certain tools.

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Wow really well I''m a newbie in this, so I''ll guess I''ll learn some of the easier languages also, problem is I don''t have any Idea how to put these languages to work together. Well I guess as I learn them I''ll figure these things out. Thanx for the info.

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quote:
1. Ability to develop tools for your game easily, quickly and with less fuss.


You can use Builder or even MFC but I''ll stick to the Win32 API. Though I aree that using VB might be faster.

quote:
You never see a carpenter trying to do the different jobs with a hammer, same idea with programming, certain problems can be done better with certain tools.


I agree. But it is still quite possible to do everything with C/C++ without giving up too much.

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Here what you sould do. first is vc++ 6.0 the first computer language you have touch. If yes then continu dont start whit vb because you will get adicted to the easy code and will stay in visual to make your application. Seconde vc++ 6.0 and more are the best programming language to program new day game. Soo you should only learn vc++ and for your editor learn mfc or aske a vb programmer to do it for you.

Kevin

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OK so continue leraning VC++, for Full Screen you cannot or should not use MFC?... i am currently only in about 150pages to Learn VC++ in 24hrs so these may seem newbieish but again.. i am new to programming aspect ..



-----------------------------
Im a Noob but i am willing to learn
-----------------------------

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forget mfc for your game, it mainly helps with wingui, which isnt what you need in a game. Find an example game that uses win32, and you really dont even need to know anything about it.

of coarse some games use mfc for the menus and then just win32 for the game. dont know why you would do that, but novalogic does(thats what it seems like anyway)

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If you want to try learning multiple languages, id suggest you make sure they are very similar. C++/Java or C++/C# are obvious combinations and learning the differences between the two may actually help you learning about programming languages in general.
C# has one benefit over Java for tool development, its standard GUI classes is the normal Windows interface, while Java uses Swing(well you can use AWT but it sucks for anything but applets) which really doesnt look cool, and has a nasty tendency to be slow(JDK 1.4 might have helped there though).
Also it is a bit easier using Native code/dll files in C# compared to Java.
(Dont get me wrong Java is cool, just not for this).

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if you want to learn programming forget Sams "vc++ in 24 hours". First learn c++ then learn the windows api, MFC, openGL or DirectX etc... I think everyone here will agree that having mastery of the basics is the only way to go.

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ok so lets back up.. should i continue my studies w/ VC++ 6.0 or no.. if no i need more spacific than C++ what where why... can i still do C++ in a VC++ complier? im bot far in but want to learn...

-----------------------------
Im a Noob but i am willing to learn
-----------------------------

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Or should i read
Sams Tricks of the Windows Game Programming Gurus
Fundamentals of 2D and 3D game programming

would this be a better book to study?



-----------------------------
Im a Noob but i am willing to learn
-----------------------------

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quote:

But it is still quite possible to do everything with C/C++ without giving up too much.




Except time. Doing your tools in straight Win32 C++ is just dumb. Sure, it can be done, but it''s going to take a lot longer. MFC is great for that, as is C#. Heck, I''m not even convinced that MFC woudl be bad for games. Everyone complains that MFC is too bloated and slow, and then they run out and embed a scripting language. I''ve done a lot of MFC work over the years, some of it for very time critical applications, and have never had a problem.

Take care,
Bill

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to TechnoOrganics:
If i were you id grab a book on standard C++ and learn from that(and make sure you read it properly, so you can use templates for examples). You need to understand standard C++ first, so you can better navigate through the mess of platform, OS and compiler implementation differences that exist in the C++ world.
When you are comfortable with standard C++, then read a few tutorials on Win32(plenty of those available, and youll usually also find them in the first chapter of game programming books).
When you go these things down, you start learning some DirectX or OpenGL(choose based on what the engine you are using actually uses), this will help you understand why it acts as it does, when it crashes with a big *boom*
When you get to the point where you need to develop some external tools(character editors, script stuff or map editors) you try to learn some basic C#(or Java), this shouldnt be too hard if you got a solid understanding of C++(and OOP).
If you happen to be one of the die-hard anti-oop types, then just use Win32 for everything, game and tools, but i wouldnt recommend that.

quote:

can i still do C++ in a VC++ complier


You can ONLY do C++ using VC++(well to be precise you can do C++/C/ASM). VC++ is just a C++ compiler and IDE. It also happens to be one of the better ones for Windows/DirectX game development because there arent any problems with the Direct X SDK and VC++, using other compiler/IDEs might show a few weird configuration quirks(nothing that experienced(i dont consider myself one of these, though people cant handle, but no reason to make it harder when you are just starting out).

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is there ne suggestions on which book to get for standard C++? there are lots and LOL i have spent a hundred $ can on books now deemed useless by ppl of the boards so before i blow more money on junk which is the better books to get for standard C++

Im going to be straight forward, i am not finished my Gr.12 i am 19 dropped out of HS due to a few problems IRL, Working, been working w/ computers for a LONG LONG Time, i am tryin to get my Gr.12 through corrospondance...

Reason i am telling you this is because i know i am about to get a post or two about taking a school course... that i cannot do due to my Gr.12 not being done so just to clear that up


Book names would be great

Paul Donald
Techno Organics
http://technoorganics.netfirms.com

-----------------------------
Im a Noob but i am willing to learn
-----------------------------

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Giving specific book advice is a bit dangerous, because its essential that way the book teaches match not only your programming skill, but also your skills in other areas(logical/analytical, preference for procedural or OO-programming).
For example: i tried learning C++ from the book "thinking in C++", which is okay, but it assumes that you find the low-level stuff easy and is having a hard time with OOP etc, which was not the case for me, since i was comfortable in the high level world of Java, and needed to learn some low-level stuff to better deal with C++.
I ended up getting much of what i need from a book called "Practical object oriented programming in Java and C++", hardly an obvious introduction to c++.
If i were you id visit the local bookstore/library and read some covers in order to make certain that the book you get is right for what you know and how you need to learn it.
Whatever you do stay away from books authored by Herbert Schildt(he IS horrible). If i was you id take a look at the Waite series of programming books. I havent read them, but ive heard good things about them, and was close to buying one myself(i didnt because it contained way too much stuff i already knew).
One of them is:
The Waite Group''s C++ Primer Plus by Stephen Prata
Otherwise take a look in "Books and Software" right here on Gamedev.net!

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My two cents for beginning c++ books:

1. Waite Groupes "Intro to object oriented programming in c++"

2. Wrox "Beginning C++" by Ivor Horton

Don''t let your lack of finishing school get you down, its just a piece of paper after all, and remember BillyBob Gates is a college dropout.

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nonnus29 i thank you for that i dont let it get me down tho.. but people usally bash me for it... i will look into getting thoes books soon if they are suggested!....

thanks

Paul Donald
Techno Organics
technoorganics.netfirms.com

-----------------------------
Im a Noob but i am willing to learn
-----------------------------

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One book that I''ve found extremely useful is Herbert Schildt''s C/C++ Programmers Reference. I haven''t read anything else from him, but this is by far the best investment I''ve ever made. I''ve got a slightly outdated version, but it''s only 20$, and it''s a great reference for the language, and STL if you decide to use that.

As far as books for actually learning though, I''d recommend you go to your favourite local bookstore and pick out a few, then sit down and read a few pages from various locations in each of them. Spend 15 minutes or so in each book. When you''re done, you should have a pretty good idea of which one you like the most (ie. Will learn the quickest). Get it. And pick up the Programmer''s Reference while you''re there

Get a good grasp on the basics first, otherwise you''ll struggle with everything else later on. As for game programming, I learned through NeHe (which is openGL, I think there is one called Xehe or something for directX)

Good luck

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