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Silvermyst

Sword Fighting

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Shinkage's Insights Into A Realistic RPG Fighting System Nazrix's Sword Fighting - RPG OoMMMoO's Some Real Sword Fighting Dwarfsoft's Flowing Fighting System Symphonic's Bullet-Time to Sword-Time I've been doing a lot of brainstorming about the 'real time sword fight' lately. Three titles I'm using as research material: Blade Of Darkness (PC) Die By The Sword (PC) Bushido Blade 2 (Playstation) (plan on purchasing Bushido Blade 1 as well) If you know of any threads on this forum that deal with the subject of sword fighting, could you please add them to this thread? Okay, let's get started. Which ingredients are absolutely needed to give the sword fighting game its flavor? What kind of controls can we use and how? I think these two questions need to be asked and answered at the same time. If the answer to the first question is "I need to be able to fight with two weapons at the same time", you need to adjust your answer to the second one to ensure that you have the ability to fight with two weapons. Vice versa, if the answer to the second question is "I want to be able to play the game using just the keyboard" you will have to adjust the answers to the first question to make sure that whatever you want is possible by just using the keyboard. In the end, we'll end up with just the right control system to give us everything we really need. [edited by - Silvermyst on May 6, 2002 11:00:14 AM]

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You might also want to try an old game, Prince of Persia (an old platform game with really smooth/good animation).

For sword fighting to be 'fun' for the player I would think certain conditions would need to be met:

* There should be no best attack/best combo that the player can learn early on, then repeat to defeat all enemies. This make the rest of the game feel like a chore (checking for such combos can be hard, its likely easier to design a good ai opponent).

* Skill should be progressive. As players progress they should be able to hone their technique, so that if they where to be sent back to an earlier part of the game they would do alot better (due to the l33t skillz they have mastered to progress in the game)

* The controls should not be overly complicated. A small number of moves that can be combined is better than many special moves. An example would be to have a safe attack, a risky attack and a block (combined with normal player actions like move and jump)

* Collision detection needs to be good. It will ruin the player experience if the swords don't seem to work just right.

[EDIT]: Removed really old from PoP description. Its 286/386 era, which is not as old as some Gamedev'ers will remember.

[EDIT]: Thief is also an ok example of a sword fighting system (though it suffered from the first point, there was a method you could learn that was unbeatable, making you an uber killing machine)

[edited by - michalson on May 6, 2002 10:54:54 AM]

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Consider looking at Soul Calibur for Dreamcast. While it''s a fighting game like Tekken or Street Fighter, the sword fighting engine is very well thought-out and consistent. For example, you have horizontal and vertical slash buttons, and the horizontal slashes can''t be sidestepped, while the vertical slashes can''t be ducked, and are frequently more powerful / have more range. Also, input commands always follow the same pattern, like forward+vertical slash always does a straight STAB move, which has long range but can be sidestepped. down/back+horizontal slash always does a low cut at the legs.

It''s a pretty arcade-game-type system, but I really can''t imagine a better action-packed swordfighting engine.

Another staple of Soul Calibur is that any hit you know is coming can be deflected, giving you an advantage. But you have to deflect it just as it hits you; if you mis-time it, you will get hit. This system basically makes predictable moves a bad idea against an expert.

I have played Bushido Blade 1 but I''m not very good at it and can''t comment.

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Jedi Knight 2 has a pretty good lightsaber fighting system, though the blocking is automatic (auto blocks if you''re not doing something else like attacking). It would be too hard to play if it was manual though because of how fast the action is.

While I''m here I just want to give props to Raven Games. They make some good shit

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I agree with Nacrus: Soul Calibur and its prequel were great games as they provided a myriad of special moves which were linked to keypresses that made sense. This made it easier to learn them. The other important aspect was that there were several defence mechanisms, each appropriate for different attacks. So if your opponent got used to using one defence mechanism, you could try a different type of attack. It wasn''t just a button-mashing fest - it was a high-paced tactical game where you''re trying to find the weaknesses in your opponent''s defence while protecting yourself from the same fate.

4 buttons plus a directional control is adequate for this sort of game, I found. Having said that, being able to redefine a few more to your favourite combinations was also very useful.

[ MSVC Fixes | STL | SDL | Game AI | Sockets | C++ Faq Lite | Boost | Asking Questions | Organising code files ]

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how about tackling the problem from the bottom up? Learn how to fight with a sword, *then* worry about how to translate it into a game... apart from olympic fencing (which you should be able to learn in almost any bigger city) here´s a few links to get you started:

www.dreynschlag.at (german, with photo tutorials)
www.zornhau.de (german, with training photos)
www.freifechter.org
www.fechthalle-muenchen.de

www.thehaca.com (historical armed combat association)
www.sca.org (society for creative anachronism - tons of links but somewhat disorderly)

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what about this kind of interface:

When you are in "fighting mode" or "sword drawn out", a table of buttons will appear on screen. (table as in data arrangement).

So you could have, for example 4x5 table of buttons. Each one has a little graphical picture of a particular attack method. So by clicking on each button you get different kind of attack. Furthermore, the types of attack could be organized by rows, like the first row of buttons is all "high" or "head" attacks, 2nd row could be "middle" attack, 3rd could be "low", and 4th could be something special. To make things even more elaborate, lets say that right mouse click means "attack" and left mouse click means "defense".

When player fights, he can keep left hand on the arrow keys to control character movement and keep right hand on mouse. Mouse allows quick and easy way of selecting a particular attack method and it helps the player seeing available buttons on screen.

What do you think guys?

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its a little complex, beserk.

just a little....

but i see where you''re coming from.

in most games now tho, the mouse is used to "look". you wouldn''t be able to keep your pointer on the buttons (or even bring it back there) without screwing up your orientation

someone poke the holes in this plz.



die or be died...i think

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quote:
in most games now tho, the mouse is used to "look". you wouldn''t be able to keep your pointer on the buttons (or even bring it back there) without screwing up your orientation


Well, for now, let''s focus on a one-on-one fight. So ''mouse-look'' isn''t really a necessary element. The camera could either be set in place, or automatically change when needed (when combatants close). That''s not to say that mouse-look might not be required, but it depends on a lot of different other elements.

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