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What's after 3d?

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With the recent talk about the evolution of games, I was curious what some opinions were on whats next in games? The amount of realism, expecially with the new 3d engines like Doom 3, is unbelievable. How more real can games become? Is every future game going to look the same because we''ve reached a maximum in realism? Is the next step virtual reality; not just on a computer screen, but on advanced monitors on your head? Just some weird thoughts I had that might spark interesting conversation. Basically, is there anything else after 3d engines take there toll.

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My guess is that we''ll finally be able to start working on games
that are more fun than technologically advanced.

-Hyatus
"da da da"

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quote:
Original post by SamCN
With the recent talk about the evolution of games, I was curious what some opinions were on whats next in games? The amount of realism, expecially with the new 3d engines like Doom 3, is unbelievable. How more real can games become?

We have a long long way to go with regard to realistic 3d graphics. Consider all of the following:

  • Supersampling, not just edge antialiasing.
  • Motion blur.
  • Micropolygon rendering ala the Reyes rendering architecture as used by Renderman.
  • Ray traced displacement shaders ala Mental Ray.
  • Terrain erosion.
  • Dynamic Weather models.
  • Physical based models for kinemetic articulated limbs.
  • Ocean wave models.
  • Muscle animation.
  • Hair.
  • Procedurally generated eco-systems.
  • Dynamic radiosity models for huge datasets.



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I could see the glut of 3d games hitting a critical point, then causing a serious retro flashback. Perhaps the reemergence of text adventures or something equally bizarre. Someone will probably theorize that the players imagination would be more effective than the artists skills.

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new input devices.

3d headsets will really boost 3d games. Realism without a mouse..

i would love to play a 3d shooter with no mouse or keyboard..

Its my duty, to please that booty ! - John Shaft

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In the future I think it will be more focus on details and flexibility. One good example allready is Grand Theft Auto 3 which has a lot of stuff to do in the game, and actually it''s the small details which makes the games fun.


Regards

Daniel

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Motion Blur''s already been accomplished, up to a point - but I guess you meant ''a not-slow and cunning form of Motion Blur.''

Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates
- sleeps in a ham-mock at www.thebinaryrefinery.cjb.net

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In the far future, games in today's form will not be played a lot anymore, just like WE don't play a lot of old middle-age games anymore.

Desktop computers will be rare, because people will find things such as PDA's, sheet of paper computers, computers in glasses, and computers implanted in the brain more useful.

3D engines will be so normal that you can't even imagine what a 2D game is. Atually, a game has photorealistic images, generated by voxel engines where voxels have the size of a molecule and interact to each other like real molecules according to chemical/physical laws. The difference between single player game, multiplayer game, MMORPG, and between games and movies, doesn't exist anymore, and some people will not know anymore if they're inside a game or not.

Because robots do all the work for us, people have not much to do in real life, that's why they go live "real" lives in MMORPG's instead, with the advantage that in a MMORPG you can restart if things go bad, and you can start another one if it gets boring.

Making a map for a game won't be difficult, you say to your computer "I want a grassy terrain with 4 hills, with a river there and a waterfall there, and a swamp over there with some creepy swamp flora in it", and the computer understands what you say and generates it in 0.000000001 seconds, and then you say "I don't like the color of the grass, make it more brownish" and it's done.

Actually, (this hasn't got to do with games), programs like we know them today won't exist, if you want to paint, just say your computer what you want and he shows a painting interface for you, and if you want a fill tool just describe and you get it. The same if you want a 3D modeling program / spreadsheet / and so on. So software companies won't make a lot of money anymore, but who cares as I said above nobody has a job because robots do everything.

That is, considering we won't be killed by a nuclear or antimatter bomb or we'll be able to colonize other planets before we destroy Earth with such a bomb.

[edited by - Lode on May 31, 2002 10:20:39 AM]

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Lode: That sounds like a script for a really bad movie

-Luctus

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Guest Anonymous Poster
The next big thing is already out there. Virtual Reality. No more manipulating the environment with a mouse and keyboard, but with your own hands.

-C

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The next big thing is NOT virtual reality.
At least, not the way it was the next big thing a few years ago.
Virtual Boy was a really good thing because they actually used 3D instead of just some LCD monitor in front of your eyes.

Anyway, I didn''t like how 3D games got a "bad rap", especially when the N64 came out and Super Mario 64 was cutting edge.
I remember friends saying, "Well now that they''ve done 3D, they can''t do any better."
I thought it that statement was stupid then, and I still think it was stupid. No offense to the original question''s owner, but I can see that you at least have intelligence when you asked that question.
What is next? I agree with the idea that games will become more imagination based. Majestic was an interesting twist, although I never got to play it. I thought it was a great innovation in gameplay. Too bad almost no one either heard about it or cared.
But to play games with computers in the future, I can see the computers becoming more like tools than actual media. Using your wristwatch to coordinate an attack in a capture the flag game would rock.
Transmitting secret data to someone during class to prevent the end of the world in a game you play 24/7 with your friends would be interesting.

Who knows? Then again, we still have a lot more to do in 3D. 5 years from now, the GeForce 4 will look like crap, and Star Wars: Ep 2 will look incredibly fake to a lot of people. It is obvious when we see crappy effects now, but just remember when you saw movies from the 80s and try to watch them now. You will really be surprised at what you suspended your belief for and what passed as "realistic" effects.


-------------------------
(Gorgeous graphics)+(beautiful sound effects)+(symphonic music)+(no gameplay) != Good game

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What''s after 3d?
In what sense? Graphically? In ters of areas of improvement for games?

There''s still a lot to be done in 3d processing, as well as in 3d displays. We still project 3d images onto 2d viewing surfaces (though stereostopic projection makes a significant difference), but what about the future of holography? Being able to see 3d volumes in space would make for incredibly visceral action game experiences, for deeply immersive adventure and role-playing experiences, and perhaps even for widly interesting puzzle game experiences (Super Monkey Ball Hologram Edition, anyone?)

If you believe the movies, neurological inputs are the next logical step for display (probably after holograms, though). Directly stimulating the brain''s imaging neurons could allow for graphics indistinguishable from real life. The downside, of course, is that they''d need to stick needles in your head - not exactly my thing.

And as for gameplay improvements - well, I think that''s fairly obvious.

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Actually, I dont think it WOULD be as bad as sticking needles in your head. I think some sort of simple electorde or patch-like interface would work. Of course, eventually we will all have computers in our brain anyway, and wont even need to connect to anything to play games. We can just sit down somewhere, close our eyes, and dream our own virtual reality. Games of the future will be more like lucid dreams, in which nearly anything is possible, than the limited simulations of today.

Nanotechnology will change everything, check out www.foresight.org

In the more near future, I want to get one of those 3d lcd screens and see what they are like. Would be cool if games start taking adventage of true-3d rendering. Better forms of force-feedback and interactive devices will help, but I think the current trend of 3d games will remain for now.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Lode and Saluk:

I guess you''ve read Kurzweil, huh?

The Age Of Spiritual Machines... I hope he''s wrong with his visions.

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If it is dreamish I hope I can make restrictions. I mean, if you don't, you might make someone other than you do something you just thought of but didn't want them to do. That happens in my dreams. I hope it is some interface like a patch on either temple. And I also hope there is multiplayer. I wrote a book series about that once. IT ROCKED!

COOLNESS!

P.S. By the way, Episode 2 did look a little fake anyway. AWESOME MOVIE THOUGH.

[edited by - aramstudios on May 31, 2002 8:12:54 PM]

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I never read Kurzweil, sounded to me like Star Trek TNG gone bad.

"A man can''t just sit around." ''Lawn Chair'' Larry Walters (1982)

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Multiplayer dreams . . .
I know that we discussed this sometime last year.

On Topic : I think touch / motion will be the next step. Imagine feeling a rocket jump, soaring on an airship, or the weightlessness of space. Some co. was working on prototypes that used galvanic patches just above each ear. Last I heard of it was nearly two years ago.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
The future of gamming is this:

At home you console will consit of a head set that covers your eyes and ears. When you play a game it will be projected in front of you and the sound into your ears. Your movments will be controled by your mind. YOU will be complety sumerged into it and precive it as reality until someone punches you in the arm.

In arcades you will wear a suit or something similer make it feel like your actualy in the game. This means if someone hits you, you feel it.

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The future of gamming is this:

At home you console will consit of a head set that covers your eyes and ears. When you play a game it will be projected in front of you and the sound into your ears. Your movments will be controled by your mind. YOU will be complety sumerged into it and precive it as reality until someone punches you in the arm.

In arcades you will wear a suit or something similer make it feel like your actualy in the game. This means if someone hits you, you feel it.

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Without getting too pie in the sky, I think the next level of gaming will be augmented reality gaming. In this you will put on a headset that look somewhat like glasses. You see the world as it normally is, but the game renders monsters to display over the real world. In this way you can actually battle zombies in your house. Work is already being done on this to help with position information and architectural modelling. If it is ever to be accepted by the general public, it will need a killer app. Seeing as gaming has been the main driving force behind the constant consumer PC upgrading craze, it seems like games would be the perfect demo to push the technology into the public realm.

Ut

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There is already at least one version of AR Quake. I haven''t seen it in person, but it looks fairly interesting. There are other AR games as well. Look up papers from past IWARs (now ISMAR).

I have a very high res head mounted display and a very good tracker system that I used for AR projects. I always wanted to throw together an AR game, but I never had the spare cycles. I did get far enough to notice great potential.

About VR/AR/ and HMDs... The problem with these things is that the tracker must be pretty accurate, otherwise your eye registers one motion (virtual) and your inner ear registers another (real) motion. For even very slight mismatches, the effect gets you very nauseous very quickly. You also get all sorts of interesting effects on your depth perception. It will be awhile before HMDs/trackers can be made to appeal to the mass market.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
The fourth dimension. Hypercubes everywhere. (Level design would be impossible, and playing would be even harder).

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