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To MS beta testers or anyone else

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I personally prefer dull, boring boots without any nasty surprises

Seriously though, i dont know, but i have one suggestion to you -> dont touch win2k for at least a year from now, let it mature, why create problems for yourself ? It took 1 year for both win95 and win98 bfore they were patched and usable.
Right now win98SE seems to be the best that M$ has, its tested and working, everybody supports it.

-kertropp

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Windows 2000 has been stable since it was in beta. Dont go around telling people not to use it just because you ''think'' its bad. Windows 98 on the other hand is the most unstable POS ever made.

Josh

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*groan* Why do people insist on making asses of themselves? It''s common knowledge that you let a couple patches come out for an OS before you go running to use it.

Microsoft came and demo''ed Win2k for us and we all saw it crash.... more than once. It also has known memory issues if you have more than 64 megs ram. Try to keep the discusion knowledgable, ok Josh?

please direct all typo/spelling error information to /dev/null

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As a testament to the wait issue. I upgraded to Win2K Pro and have had nothing but trouble with EverQuest. Baulder''s Gate runs fine but EQ sucks big time. Non of the Win2K drivers I have support my video cards and none of the distribution drivers support hardware accelerated 3D. Yes wait. Forget what Josh said. Once the drivers are out and they are stable, I would recommend Win2K, because Win2K is a rather stable OS. DirectX crashes that lock up the screen in full screen mode, never take down the machine so stability is not the issue here. It is compatibility.

Kressilac
ps I am still eagerly awaiting a Rage Pro driver from ATI. Go figure as this is one of their most popular OEM drivers to date.

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You guys must be right.. I mean i''ve only been running it for over a year and haven''t had any problems with it. But obviously that means nothing because you two seem to think you know everything. The only real problem with it is lack of drivers for hardware. But that''s what the HCL is for. It''s there to allow people to see if their hardware is supported. And Sordith i''d love to know what crashed on it.

Josh

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You can dual boot between Win2k and WIn9x/WinME, or at least thats what I''m told. I deleted Win98 and went entirely over to Win2000 several months ago.

For the record, Win2000 is the most stable Microsoft operating system I''ve ever used. If your machine has any flaws, it will expose them much more quickly than Win9x - but if you have a stable PC with properly supported hardware, its wonderfully stable.

I''ve heard that there are some issues with games; I recommend the Microsoft Win2000 game compatibility page for more information. It runs the vast majority of things I''ve thrown at it, but my tastes are relatively conservative. Recently, its been running Quake 3, Unreal Tournament, Alpha Centauri, Jedi Knight, Starcraft, Ultima IX just fine.

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Very conservative...
Generally it seems that the most "popular" games are supported. As for older games, or games in more odd categories, there will probably be more problems with win2k than with win98. And that''s what Microsoft has stated as well, so they haven''t hidden anything or so.
I''ve only tested win2k for some days, can''t get my agp to work properly (aladdin), but it was really stable, at least.


A polar bear is a rectangular bear after a coordinate transform.

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josh, just because it doesn''t crash for you doesn''t mean it doesn''t crash (also just because i saw it crash doesn''t mean that''s all it does.)

the microsoft team was also demoing office 2k so i''m guessing that it was a gpf with a part of office (i''m guessing outlook, but they closed the error, and rebooted fairly fast )

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I used Win2k Beta3, and After installing everything was ok, but I had some trouble with my modem, which had to be on COM5, which then took my mouse out, which then messed lots of stuff up, well, I would definitly wait for at least 1 Service Pack before Switching over, Also, one they have PERFECT support for the Best Designed Proccesor in the World, the K7

PS: little off topic, but doesnt anyone else think Intels Merced will get its ass kicked by SledgeHammer, because of the lack of native 32bit proccesing?

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hmm...is there a REASON to get win2k ?
whats better in there than in 98?
Im perfectly happy with 98se right now, all my apps are running with all my hardware, its rock stable and it gives gpfs only after i compile and run after 2 hours of coding
I wouldnt switch over to win2k (or Linux for that matter) for even ten good reasons. Upgrade just because its fashionable ? i dont think so ....

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Well, as professional developers, we had to get Win2K in house. Just to see if the darn thing would run some of the programs we write (or have written in the past). So not upgrading because it''s fashionable. Upgrading because of all the yutzes out there who upgrade because it''s fashionable.

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Hehe, I can honestly say that fashion didn''t influence my upgrade decision. My day job involves supporting, installing and maintaining NT-based networks (as well as custom software development).... so Win2k was a natural direction for me!

Kertropp: If you are happy with Win98SE, then there is probably no reason for you to upgrade. Upgrading just because you can is pretty silly, unless you really like breaking things to see if you can fix them (which isn''t a bad way to pass boring afternoons!)

Esap1: The Merced vs. Sledgehammer argument already looks like it will become another silly "my computer is better than your computer". *sigh*. Both chipsets have advantages, so far as I can tell (assuming that they both meet their specs in final silicon).
The Intel chip will have a hard time with older apps - but should fly on custom-written software. Intel has done this before - 386s were outpaced by 286s in 16-bit mode.... just like Pentium Pros could be slower than Pentiums with certain mixed-mode applications. Initially, Merced will almost entirely be a server-platform chip. From what I''ve heard of Linux for Merced development, and also from some people I know who have had (limited) access to Win2k for Merced its a very impressive platform with native code - and a lot less impressive with nonnative code.
The Sledgehammer probably represents a better short-term chip solution - AMD are betting a lot on backward compatibility, but I don''t know if it will scale as well into the sort of large solutions the Merced is targeting. At least AMDs inability to produce chips in volume shouldn''t damage it as much as it is with the K7!

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A note on my declaration that Win2K is a waiting game for gamers. Microsoft and every Win2K site out there has plainly stated that games may or may not run properly with your hardware so install at your own risk. Primarily this is due to the driver support for video and sound. With respect to 3D it is not there yet and everyone is in a holding pattern until the manufacturers come out with it.

This does not say that Win2K is a bad OS. I actually love the OS and patiently await the release of the drivers from ATI. Programming for it is sweet because I can do most programming and testing on the OS without the need of a dual boot. Oh and full screen DirectX application don''t bring down the computer when they crash. *sweet*

Last note about Win2K. Its IP stack rocks compared to Win98. This will give all of the Quake folks out there a very needed edge in matches across the internet. Win2K is a great game platform jsut as soon as the drivers for it are released. It even makes me wonder why we need WinME. So what that we lose all of the 16bit apps. I know it hurts to lose the ability to play UltimaVII but even with that game you had to reboot and use their own memory driver to play it. I digress. It is my opinion that one should wait for Win2K unless you program and need the programming environment benefits it brings with it.(in which case buckle down and enjoy the driver wait)

Kressilac

ps Oh on the Merced vs. Sledgehammer thing. Funny little processor out there called the Emotion Chip. Won''t be long before Sony adapts that chip to a generalized 128bit architecture chip/motherboard/bus combination. If they can pull off MS support from WindowsXXX and get developers to develop for it, Intel and AMD are in for a battle with a major force. Doubt me, ask Nintendo and Sega how they feel about Sony.

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quote:
Original post by Bracket

At least AMDs inability to produce chips in volume shouldn''t damage it as much as it is with the K7!




Right now, at least over here in the UK, vendors are finding that AMD are meeting demand for the Athlon without any problems. It appears to be Intel who can''t produce chips quickly enough!

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I''m glad that AMD have found somewhere that they can ship the Athlon en masse! They have been getting better over here, but many PC manufacturers complain all the time about AMD''s inability to meet large orders in a timely fashion. Gateway and Dell both dropped the Athlon (they have since reinstated it due to demand) because of this. It would be a shame if Intel''s only real PC-market competitor failed because of something as "simple" as distribution/production!

The idea of the Emotion chip being used for anything more than the PlayStation line intrigues me. Where can I find some specs on the chip itself and not the console its used in?

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Kythotan or whatever your name is spelled. AMD may put them on sale faster but that doesn''t matter. AMD has a 1 GHz, Intel will soon have a 1 GHz and 1.5 GHz. Intel doesn''t worry about getting them out faster. That''s because they get the faster "processors" out instead of "once they get it out"

I know this is confusing I could barely understand it myself.
For the short I am saying AMD get out their processors right as they make them without thinking about speed. Intel gets their processors out slower because they make 2 then release them. It''s not who gets them out faster but which one is faster.

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quote:
Original post by Deluxe
Kythotan or whatever your name is spelled.



Kylotan... it says so on each of my posts, strangely enough.

quote:

AMD may put them on sale faster but that doesn''t matter. AMD has a 1 GHz, Intel will soon have a 1 GHz and 1.5 GHz. Intel doesn''t worry about getting them out faster. That''s because they get the faster "processors" out instead of "once they get it out"

I know this is confusing I could barely understand it myself.
For the short I am saying AMD get out their processors right as they make them without thinking about speed. Intel gets their processors out slower because they make 2 then release them. It''s not who gets them out faster but which one is faster.


AMD are doing a better job of supplying the chips than Intel are. And, they are shipping faster chips before Intel manage it. And, on almost any benchmark, an Intel chip will run slower than an equivalently priced AMD chip. Intel are playing catch up. Of course they release faster chips if you''re prepared to wait a while. All companies do that. Give me 20 years and maybe I could release a faster chip than is available now. The point is that if you want the most speed for your money, AMD is pretty much the way to go right now and Intel are having trouble keeping up.

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Deluxe, Just lets see what happens when the Thunderbird is released, OK, its going to be very good for AMD, as I bought stock in September, and is up 245%, hit its ALL TIME HIGH Yesterday, and with DDR support before Intel, as they were planning on Rambus, the Thunderbird with On Die FULL Speed L2 cache, and Copper interconects, will be about 30% faster than the Athlons out right now, at same Clock-Speed, and with the 133DDR, and then 200DDR Bus, its going to be very cool, just WATCH!

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