Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

WizKid

So what do I choose if I want to do that ?

Recommended Posts

Hello. I''m new to this forum and I have some questions : 1.What language do I use if I want to create a strategy game for Windows ? Should it be Delphi or C++ ? 2.If it''s C++, should I actually use Visual C++ ? 3.If it''s Delphi, can I actually create a game with it ? I''ve been working in Delphi since 1998, it''s been a long time, but I still don''t see how you could create a professional game with it. I''ve made some attempts with 2d graphic tiles, first with GDI, then with DirectX via DelphiX, but I''m not at all convinced with its capabilities. Also, I never heard of a commercial game written in Delphi. Why is that ? Please help. 4.Since it''s my first game, should I commence directly with building a strategy game or should I start with some simpler games ? 5.Can I create a strategy game all by myself in a reasonable period of time(let''s say 3 months) ? The game should be, for example, a Colonisation clone. Can I do that ? Or should I get a partner (or more) ? Thank you, I hope I get lots and lots of replies, tons if that''s possible. Uuu...what does this button do ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here goes:

1. Go for C++. It's faster. But if you have no experience in C++ it will take you sime time first getting to know it. Buy a good C++ book (e.g. C++ Primer by Lipmann).

2. The Visual C++ is a M$ product. It includes the Visul IDE and the possibility for you to use the MFC classes (which you probably won't use in games) or the .NET framework (if you get version 7 of the Visual IDE; but again you won't be using this framework either). So, you can use Borland C++ Builder, you can use Visual C++, you can even use Notepad and a free C++ compiler. It's all a matter of taste. Personally I use the Visual IDE 'cause I think it's the best out there.

3.I don't know Delpi (Object Pascal) myself. And I assume that you can do a game in Delphi. But it is certainly NOT the favored language in games. C++ is faster and much more flexible. Go for C++ if you have the time for learning another language. (but again bear in mind I don't know Delphi, so maybe someboyd out there can better answer that one )

4. Start with a simple game, for gods sake. Don't start with a big project; you won't finish it. Gamedev have this great article about the road to gameprogramming. Read it. It suggests you to start with Tetris and continue from there.

5. Colonisation clone? That'll take a pro a long time and a newbie a gazaillion years. See 3 above. Start SIMPLE. For your own sake.

A year spent in artificial intelligence is enough to make one believe in God.



[edited by - rohde on June 7, 2002 8:07:44 AM]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous Poster
quote:
Original post by WizKid
Hello. I''m new to this forum and I have some questions :

1.What language do I use if I want to create a strategy game for Windows ? Should it be Delphi or C++ ?


Either can be used. C++ is more common in the industry, but if you already know Delphi, then why not go with that.
quote:

2.If it''s C++, should I actually use Visual C++ ?


That depends mostly on personal preference. There are several free C/C++ compilers and IDEs available if you decide to go with C++ and don''t feel like shelling out the bucks for VC++.
quote:

3.If it''s Delphi, can I actually create a game with it ? I''ve been working in Delphi since 1998, it''s been a long time, but I still don''t see how you could create a professional game with it. I''ve made some attempts with 2d graphic tiles, first with GDI, then with DirectX via DelphiX, but I''m not at all convinced with its capabilities. Also, I never heard of a commercial game written in Delphi. Why is that ? Please help.


Of course it''s possible to write games in Delphi. I don''t know much Delphi myself so I can''t help you with specifics though.

There are some professional games written in Delphi. IIRC Age of Empires is one.
quote:

4.Since it''s my first game, should I commence directly with building a strategy game or should I start with some simpler games ?


You should do something simple for your first project. If you really want to make a strategy game, then do so, just don''t make it too complex.
quote:

5.Can I create a strategy game all by myself in a reasonable period of time(let''s say 3 months) ? The game should be, for example, a Colonisation clone. Can I do that ? Or should I get a partner (or more) ?


I don''t think 3 months is reasonable for making a complete Colonisation clone even if you''re experienced. You could get a *very basic* Colonisation-like game up and running in a few months though. It all depends on how much you already know and how much you have to learn as you go. Remember to keep your goals simple in the beginning. The best way to not finish a project is to set your goals too high in the beginning. Also, try to have patience. Don''t expect to write killer games in a few months. Take things slow.

This post was meant to be encouraging, and I hope it got across as such even if I sound a bit negative at times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WizKid, you''re asking somewhat of an opinionated question, for which there is really no right answer.

quote:
From the For Beginner FAQ
Q. OK. I read Start Here. I still don"t know which langauge/API I should learn. What do I do?
A. For starters you DO NOT post questions like this (which has been done to death) and expect to get any kind of advice that is going to sway you one way over the other. Would you go to your local Super Mall and ask on a loud speaker what type of person you should date? Second only to prOn there is no other waste of bandwidth than these types of threads. What ever you do, nothing good can come from ??? vs ??? threads. period.



And you''ve already got an opinionated answer:

quote:
Original post by rohde
Here goes:

1. Go for C++. It''s faster. But if you have no experience in C++ it will take you sime time first getting to know it. Buy a good C++ book (e.g. C++ Primer by Lipmann).

3.I don''t know Delpi (Object Pascal) myself. And I assume that you can do a game in Delphi. But it is certainly NOT the favored language in games. C++ is faster and much more flexible. Go for C++ if you have the time for learning another language. (but again bear in mind I don''t know Delphi, so maybe someboyd out there can better answer that one )



BTW rohde, your wrong, and as you state you don''t know Delphi so I don''t see what qualifications you had to make judgments in the first place. Delphi and C++ are equally powerful, anything you can write in C++ in windows can be written in Delphi. Yes there are commercial games written in Delphi, however most games are not written in Delphi because: C++ has been entrenched in windows programming from the very start, when new API''s (like the latest version of DirectX) are released by Microsoft, they release them as C/C++ libraries, more specifically libraries targeted to be compatible with their Visual C++ compiler. Users of other C++ compilers must make small changes to get these libraries to work, and users of Delphi have to wait until someone writes a conversion.

I would suggest you use which ever language you are most comfortable with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
IIRC Age of Empires is one.



Age of Empires was written by a Microsoft funded developer, hence Visual C++. You''re thinking of Age of Wonders (which was written in Delphi).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous Poster
quote:
Original post by Michalson
[quote]Original post by Anonymous Poster
IIRC Age of Empires is one.


You''re thinking of Age of Wonders (which was written in Delphi).

Ahh, yes, that''s the one. Sorry, mixed up the names.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1. Ask yourself this:
*Do you have any knowledge in C++ or Delphi? What do you know better? (I assume it''s Delphi)
*Do you already have some dev-tools?
*Do you already have some books/docu?
*
*Game developement aside: what do YOU prefere?
Read this and if you want, this.

My favorite is C++, but that does not mean that it must be better for you.

2. That''s a question of your budget. VC++ has the advantage that it is widely used, and there are lots of free resources on the net. OTOH, there also are free C++ compilers out there. And then, there are other comercial C++ compilers.
If I were you, I''d go for something not-too-expensive for a beginning. Many schools offer "Learning" VC++ licenses nearly for free.

3. I assume yes. I don''t know Delphi, so...
4. Start small. Make a Tetris clone, a Packman clone or something like that. If you start too big, chances are that you get lost in details, end with spaghetti code, and abandon the entire project being endlessly frustrated.
5. No, if it''s your first game, chances are that you''ll never finish a Colonization clone by yourself. See 4. As for finding a buddy or joining a team: I have mixed feelings about that. Being in a good team where you can really lern something is A GOOD THING. But I think it''s hard to find a good team. Maybe it''s better to work alone than to waste your time in endles chats with some l33t script-kiddies.

My 2 cts.

Forever trusting who we are
And nothing else matters
- Metallica

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
that delphi question, im not sure.
but if you wana create a game you must use an API.
C++ "nude" wouldnt work coz you only control the things, not make them, if you undastand me...
most people use : DirectX API or OpenGL API.


_________________________________________________________________________
Can someone be nice and help me on my way to be the next Hideo Kojima?
Thought So...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
First of all, thanx for all your answers. Second, well to be true, I''ve been working in C++ too, so I know a lot ; I''m not that good in OOP, though, since it''s not something that I needed until recently.
The reason I''ve been asking about what to choose between C++ and Delphi is that I''ve been working a lot in Delphi, as I''ve said before, I''ve done lots of neat projects, but I never developped a game. So when I first began planning a game, I searched the net for resources of game programming in Delphi. I found enough to last for a year , but in the same time I read that almost all of the commercial games are written in C(or C++). That bothered me, of course, because I used to think that Delphi is the best.
What bothered me even more was that articles on game AI or pathfinding, for example, come with code written in C++. That made me reconsider and start thinking at programming with C++.
I don''t want to continue working in Delphi if it can''t do certain things that C++ can. That''s my issue, even if I feel a lot more comfortable in Delphi and I think it''s really easy to create an interface in it.
Now I''d like to have the opinion of someone who knows both C++ and Delphi. Is it easier to use DirectX in C++ than in Delphi ?
And more important : is C++ faster than Delphi ? If so, in what mesure ? Can one actually feel the difference in a game ? Is it harder to create an AI in Delphi ?
Thank you.

Uuu...what does this button do ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quote:
Original post by WizKid
What bothered me even more was that articles on game AI or pathfinding, for example, come with code written in C++. That made me reconsider and start thinking at programming with C++.


Like I said, thats because C++ has become the defacto standard (just like english is the defacto standard for net communication, not because its better, but because the most people use it and it therefore becomes standard)

quote:
Original post by WizKid
I don''t want to continue working in Delphi if it can''t do certain things that C++ can.


Any program you can write in C++ (on the windows platform) you can write in Delphi. If you really want to you can drop all the VCL stuff and write a bare bones win32 API program just like in C++.

quote:
Original post by WizKid
Now I''d like to have the opinion of someone who knows both C++ and Delphi. Is it easier to use DirectX in C++ than in Delphi ?


There are several conversions of the DirectX for Delphi. You''ve already seen DelphiX, which is probably the easyist to use (it is an excellent wrapper of the DX library), however some parts of the DelphiX abstraction are slower than using bare bones DirectX. If you want absolute speed then you want one of the Jedi exact conversions, which will be of exactly the same difficulty and speed as writing in C++.

quote:
Original post by WizKid
And more important : is C++ faster than Delphi ? If so, in what mesure ? Can one actually feel the difference in a game ? Is it harder to create an AI in Delphi ?


No. If you compare same version (ie Delphi Professional vs. VC++ Professional) you''ll find the speed is the same. Only your code will make it faster or slower. The only difference is C++ will let you write strange hacks with fewer lines of code, while Delphi requires that you specifically tell it that you want to shoot yourself in the foot before you can do it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Like other people said, start simple! Make a pong, tetris or a breakout clone.
I think that the best combination is C++ with an API, but if you want to use Delphi I have some articles for you. Check them out here


[edited by - Mephisto on June 7, 2002 10:34:20 AM]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
About VC++, There are some books that are bundled with an "introductory edition" of VC++ (Actually, I got mine with a magazine)
The only annoying thing is an alert box appearing when you launch your app telling you that you don''t have the right to distribute binaries created with this version.


----
David Sporn AKA Sporniket

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Okay..so I''ve decided and it''s been 6 hours since my first post. That was quick, wasn''t it ? Well I guess I''ll work in Delphi and create Age of Empires III in just 1 month of programming. Simple, isn''t it ? I''d like to thank you all for posting..it''s been a real help.

Uuu...what does this button do ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous Poster
off topic, but when I first read the name "davidsporn" it looked like David''s Porn.. bet you get that all the time though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites