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Zeraan

Should I learn Visual Basic?

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I know enough C++ to make games. But I see some people using Visual Basic in this (or at least refer to them) and I was wondering if I should learn it or not? Also I see people making fun of it. Also add reason why you made your suggestion. I don''t want this to become a flame war. If I learn Visual Basic, will it affect my C++ programming style? Thanks in advance ----------------------------- To debug, or not to debug, that is the question. Whether ''tis nobler in the computer to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous errors, or to take C++ reference books against a sea of bugs, and by opposing, debug them.

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VB might give you ideas of how to structure things in C++, who knows. Eventually you''ll find a style that works well for you, and as long as it''s understandable, what''s the harm?

VB is slow for games, though. And if your primary focus will be on making games, you''ll be happier with the results C++ brings you.

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First let me mention that I know both C++ and Visual Basic.

In my opinion Visual Basic is useful to get started fast with game programming. It is easy to learn and can get you far. But there is no doubt that C++ will get you further, so if you already know C++ well you shouldn''t bother learning Visual Basic.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
IMO, Visual Basic is not a good language to learn programming. It teaches you some bad habits that make it harder to learn C++ or other low level (I mean lower than VB) languages later on. VB is really nice for making GUIs quickly and getting a little app up and running, but yes it may affect your programming style if you are not real solid yet. Master C++, you will be much better off. Most companies would rather hire a C++ programmer and teach them Visual Basic than hire someone who only knows VB.

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I began programming C++ and I then also began working with Visual Basic and I didn''t notice a change in the style I program in. Besides, VB has it''s place in making apps very very rapidly.

More knowledge is never bad is it? The only thing that you may not like is the extra money you have to spend to get a VB compiler since there are no free ones like there are for other languages.



I will not make a list of links... I will not make a list of links... I will not make a list of links...
Invader''s Realm

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I haven''t done much with Visual Basic but IMO it''s not worth learning. If you want to go the Visual route Borland Builder and Delphi are two very good products. Builder uses a modified version of the C++ language but still works everything regular C does (DirectX, OpenGL, ect.). Delphi uses object Pascal which (like 90% of the other languages out there) is damn near C++.

Still though, Visual Basic isn''t much of a game language. Most people learn it for business type stuff. If your doing games, C++ is about as good as you get.

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Learning another programming language (or at least becomming familiar with it) is always a good thing. It gives you a broader understanding of the industry (for lack of a better word), and it could help make you more marketable for employment. Obviously one can't master all programming languages, but becoming proficient in more than one is quite feasable and very common. The more tools you have at your disposal the better.

[edited by - noparity on June 7, 2002 7:47:31 PM]

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Visual Basic is a brain-dead language, as Microsoft decided to preserve enough of the nonsense in BASIC. Visual Basic .NET is a step in the right direction, but is nowhere near being a truly "good language."

If you want something "easy", try Delphi or C# (if you have no issues with .NET). Otherwise, stick with C or C++.

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Well, I definatly prefer VB over C/C++, especially for Windows programming. If you hate doing DirectX in C like me, try it in VB... you don''t have to mess with the Windows stuff and can focus more on the creative side of the programming.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
I''m not even going to read the other posts...

I SAY FORGET IT!!! C++ is basically all you''ll need to make an excellente game. Now that you know C++ it''s time you learn how to program and then you can learn how to make a game. If I had a dime for every person who convinced themselves that to make games all they needed to do was read a book and do some expample code then Bill Gates would be my gardner...

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Okay thanks guys! I think I don''t need to learn VB now, just stick with C++ because thats the first programming language I learned and I''m still not solid as AP said that it can affect my programming style. I like my style right now

-----------------------------
You know your game is in trouble when your AI says, in a calm, soothing voice, "I''m afraid I can''t let you do that, Dave"

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Guest Anonymous Poster
OOPs me again (the forget it person)

REASON: VB doesn''t add anything to your knowledge and I think you''ll just be losing time learning it (yes, one week is a lot of time). Now that you know C++ you should try applying your knowledge, way beyond the sample code that you use while learning C++. AND don''t forget that game programming can be a hefty business, although most of the theory is basic, sometimes applying it can take you 4X what you were expecting it to take you. And this 4X perfance figure only comes down with a lot of practice...

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Guest Anonymous Poster
OOPs me again (the forget it person)

REASON: VB doesn''t add anything to your knowledge and I think you''ll just be losing time learning it (yes, one week is a lot of time). Now that you know C++ you should try applying your knowledge, way beyond the sample code that you use while learning C++. AND don''t forget that game programming can be a hefty business, although most of the theory is basic, sometimes applying it can take you 8X what you were expecting it to take you. And this 8X performance figure only comes down with a lot of practice...

But don''t worry, you''ll get there sooner than you think

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Knowledge is power my friend...

Why learn HTML when FrontPage can do it all for you?

Theres always a good reason to know a language, ALWAYS. VB is quite uber in its app making, a lot of map editors are made in VB so you can just whip up the editor in an hour flat, then work on all the other crap like interpreting what you''ve done, etc.

Never turn down learning a language for anything.

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The reason you should learn VB is very simple: So that you don''t make remarks that are completly unfounded about something you know nothing about.

VB is a wonderful language. Speed is not always your top concern, sometimes it is just making something quickly. As someone mentioned, making a map editor in VB is much quicker. It also has many aspects of itself that are wildly different from what you have in C++. For example, interface inheritance is a way of life in VB.

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Zeraan ...

Learn as many languages as you can manage. From each one you will learn many different software approaches to solving a problem. That is where the real trick is. I have been involved in several differences of opinion is here about similar things. Some people MFC is the way forward, without understanding MFC at all ... likewise people also say Delphi is the way forward ... without understanding why. At the end of the day you have to make your own mind up. You can only do that from an informed perspective.

Ignore what everyone else says, and learn what you can, and decide from there.

Regards

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quote:
Why learn HTML when FrontPage can do it all for you


OK I''ll eat the flamebait this time.

Jesus! Grow up, son. Learn, learn and learn. Why do anything if Microsoft tells you what to do ?

Grow up, please. Do it. Now. NOW, it''s never too late...


deux dimension now.

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You know why not learn VB?! I played around with it to experiment in it and I find it makes nice GUI''s in an hour TOPS. ITs great for like a setup program for your game (like what resolution, sound rate and stuff). It also won''t take that long to learn it to its max potential!

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Alright, I guess I should learn VB then. The main reason why I asked is because I wanted to learn something beside C++. Here''s a couple of questions concerning VB:

Where can I find tutorials/articles on VB programming?

How much does a standard compiler cost for VB?

-----------------------------
You know your game is in trouble when your AI says, in a calm, soothing voice, "I''m afraid I can''t let you do that, Dave"

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At the risk of sounding quite coarse, I wish people would pull their heads out of their arses and realise that languages like Visual Basic have their uses (which may or may not be cutting-edge game development... you'd be surprised how far some people can push technology).

I am constantly amazed to hear people say things to the tune of "don't learn language X, coz it suXors", simply because they have not found it useful for what they do (or worse yet, have just been "told" this is the case). I currently write XML-based business communications software for a living, and if you think systems like that get created in a timely fashion (ie in an environment where short product cycles are mandatory, and the adage "time is money" rules) using something like C/C++, you need to visit your local substance-abuse centre. The primary language used in my company is Visual Basic. Why? Because it fulfills the requirements of the task: it is fast to develop in, and has a massive developer support network (ie 3rd party middleware and documentation).

Merlin9x9... I had to smile when you remarked that Visual basic .NET "nowhere near being a truly good language". Just what do you call a good language? Would you stick Java in the same category? As far as my experience goes with the .NET languages, they are for all intents and purposes identical to Java. Does a "good language" have to have explicit memory management and pointers in order to qualify? Thinking about the design goals of a modern OO language, I would expect quite the opposite. I for one think Visual Basic .NET is the coming of age for VB, and it is now a brilliant fully-featured language. I would love to hear your reasoning behind dismissing it so easily.

I am currently in the middle of doing a port of my graphics library code over to C#, as I am keen to see if I can make it perform at a level near that of the C++ version (plus can take advantage of the whole .NET language interoperability goodness if I decide to do my engine tools in VB.NET or whatever). I don't expect C# to perform quite as well as C++ for these tasks, however I am treating it as a learning process, and I am hoping the other benefits will balance this downside.

OKay... I've probably rambled a bit too much (this sort of thing gets my back up sometimes), but my main point is to reinforce the sentiments of those who have been encouraging Zeraan to learn all he can. Languages are tools. The more tools you know how to use, the more diverse a range of problems you can solve. Taking the approach of "Phooey to VB... C++ can do anything!" is like using a sledgehammer to cut a piece of wood in half... sure it will work (and quickly too ), but why not use a saw and get the job done neater and easier.

Hmmmm... you know its time to stop when you start talking in weird analogies like that...

[edit] Just to temper my short novel a bit , I would probably take the view that C++ is currently the most suitable language for games development. By their very nature, these sorts of projects are resource-intensive, so the extra level of control offered by this language is generally welcomed.
That said, this has really no bearing on whether another language is worth learning of not.

[edit] Just another thing (I promise its the last )... I have found that my programming style is unrelated to the language I work in... I think its more high-level than that... more in the way you think, and how you architect your programs. Just make sure you don't fall into bad habits... someone mentioned that picking up sloppy practices and bad habits is easy if you learn VB as a first language, and sadly it appears to be very true... VB's little "short cuts" are probably responsible for a lot of shitty unmaintainable code out there (like at the last place I worked )

[edited by - Bad Monkey on June 8, 2002 1:18:16 AM]

[edited by - Bad Monkey on June 8, 2002 1:24:19 AM]

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A VB compiler is about the same price as a MS VC++ compiler. There are a ton of sites out there with souce. Just think of something you want to do in VB and use Google. I know quite a few languages simply because I come up with projects and then learn how to execute them in a language. It makes learning the language a lot more interesting.

I learned how to program in Visual BASIC when I wrote Cradle Quest 2. I had an idea to make an full motion video game and I knew VB could do what I wanted to do (namely play video clips). So I learned what I needed to complete the project. In the process I learned more than I needed.

Ben


IcarusIndie.com [ The Rabbit Hole | The Labyrinth | DevZone | Gang Wars | The Wall | Hosting ]

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quote:
Original post by x86asm
You know why not learn VB?! I played around with it to experiment in it and I find it makes nice GUI''s in an hour TOPS. ITs great for like a setup program for your game (like what resolution, sound rate and stuff). It also won''t take that long to learn it to its max potential!


You can do the same with C++ Builder.

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With a fair bit of confidence (and possibly arrogance ), I will go out on a limb and say that in VB, I can do what a lot of people here can''t do with C++. I am quite aware that there are people here who are a lot smarter than me, don''t think I don''t know who you are . But when it comes down to it, language really isn''t that important when it comes to knowing how to program. More important is understanding good design, problem solving and just understanding how computers work. Those things are not specific to any programming language.

There are people who can outcode me (if that is even a word) using C++. There are people who I can outcode using VB. Big deal.

Whoever said that a company would prefer to hire a C++ coder and train them in VB rather than hiring a VB only coder. Please, back this up. I know I have been employed to do VB stuff and I can only read C++. And, if you have ever used UnrealEd and noticed how slow it is, I think that is a great example of why you can''t just say "I''m good at C++. VB is easier, therefore I must be great at VB". While it is functional, it is very slow for what it does. I bet they got their job done quicker than if they had have used C++, but the languages are not just interchangable.

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Yeah Rag! I didn''t know you post here?

Visual Basic is a wonderful language. The Visual Basic Game Development community is vibrant and growing. And many larger games are under development to prove that Visual Basic has potential.

Maybe you should try the new Full Screen motion blurring at www.DirectX4VB.com, it is quite interesting.

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