• Announcements

    • khawk

      Download the Game Design and Indie Game Marketing Freebook   07/19/17

      GameDev.net and CRC Press have teamed up to bring a free ebook of content curated from top titles published by CRC Press. The freebook, Practices of Game Design & Indie Game Marketing, includes chapters from The Art of Game Design: A Book of Lenses, A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing, and An Architectural Approach to Level Design. The GameDev.net FreeBook is relevant to game designers, developers, and those interested in learning more about the challenges in game development. We know game development can be a tough discipline and business, so we picked several chapters from CRC Press titles that we thought would be of interest to you, the GameDev.net audience, in your journey to design, develop, and market your next game. The free ebook is available through CRC Press by clicking here. The Curated Books The Art of Game Design: A Book of Lenses, Second Edition, by Jesse Schell Presents 100+ sets of questions, or different lenses, for viewing a game’s design, encompassing diverse fields such as psychology, architecture, music, film, software engineering, theme park design, mathematics, anthropology, and more. Written by one of the world's top game designers, this book describes the deepest and most fundamental principles of game design, demonstrating how tactics used in board, card, and athletic games also work in video games. It provides practical instruction on creating world-class games that will be played again and again. View it here. A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing, by Joel Dreskin Marketing is an essential but too frequently overlooked or minimized component of the release plan for indie games. A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing provides you with the tools needed to build visibility and sell your indie games. With special focus on those developers with small budgets and limited staff and resources, this book is packed with tangible recommendations and techniques that you can put to use immediately. As a seasoned professional of the indie game arena, author Joel Dreskin gives you insight into practical, real-world experiences of marketing numerous successful games and also provides stories of the failures. View it here. An Architectural Approach to Level Design This is one of the first books to integrate architectural and spatial design theory with the field of level design. The book presents architectural techniques and theories for level designers to use in their own work. It connects architecture and level design in different ways that address the practical elements of how designers construct space and the experiential elements of how and why humans interact with this space. Throughout the text, readers learn skills for spatial layout, evoking emotion through gamespaces, and creating better levels through architectural theory. View it here. Learn more and download the ebook by clicking here. Did you know? GameDev.net and CRC Press also recently teamed up to bring GDNet+ Members up to a 20% discount on all CRC Press books. Learn more about this and other benefits here.


  • Content count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Community Reputation

458 Neutral

About YoungProdigy

  • Rank
  1. Thanks for the advice guys. I think until I get super realistic samples; I'll market myself as a retro composer.   I think marketing myself as a retro composer; that I could get away with charging $100/minute or $100/track.
  2. Hey, YoungProdigy here. Just finished "Retro City". "Retro City" is an 8-bit NES style chiptune.   You can listen to it here: https://soundcloud.com/youngprodigymusic/young-prodigy-retro-city
  3.   Actually, you're being argumentative. When folks, with more experience and credentials, are trying to help steer you in the right direction(s) that worked for them and are only meant with rebuttals it feels (and seems) like you're just dismissing that advice. I've seen several folks I admire and respect, who are making good music, reach out to you with ideas and suggestions - only to have you rebuke those tips. And that's really too bad.      Sorry but you're wrong. And for you to make this comment shows that, despite repeatedly trying to explain and give you ideas for how your productions are lacking, you're just not getting it.      Sorry to bust your bubble but I have LASS and Hollywood Strings and they can sound extremely fake without the right production.    I feel like I'm beating a dead horse with this discussion, honestly. I've made many various suggestions to you over the many different threads in the forum. I do appreciate you trying EWQLSO but truly feel you haven't really dug deep enough into the program.  Here's a suite of symphonic works I made using EWQLSO as my main sound palette. Not saying it's perfect. In fact, listening again four years later, I can hear tons of production things I wish I would've done differently. Done better. But the music can be impactful. I've been told as much by many folks. Not trying to toot my own horn (pun intended) but my point is we've shown you many times how less-than-realistic sample libraries can still produce great sounding, impactful music.  http://madsenstudios.bandcamp.com/album/along-this-path I do wish you the best but am getting frustrated that you don't receive feedback better, honestly. I've said my bit and will leave it at that.  Thanks,  Nate   I'm not being argumentative. I just simply won't reply to feedback. The one giving feedback is always right and I'm always wrong. So I simply won't bother replying to feedback I don't 100% agree with or I'll be accused of being "argumentative".   LASS can sound fake. But since it most likely responds to CC11 realistically, has more realistic legato and has more articulations; it probably won't.   I listened to your suite. The songs do sound good; but I don't hear any super realistic string melodies.   But we're getting nowhere with this. When I say using CC11 doesn't sound realistic and you just tell me I'm wrong, that is not helpful. Nor is telling me that I'm wrong when I say the velocities have drastically different volumes helpful. Both of those things are true.   Rather than telling me I'm wrong, what would be more helpful is telling me how to make CC11 sound realistic.   At the end of the day it comes down to "will this feedback help me improve" and none of this feedback has really helped me improve.   At the end of the day, the guy giving feedback is always right and I'm always wrong. Rather than help me; this conversation has been reduced to I'm right and you're wrong.So continuing this discussion isn't going to help anyone.
  4.   This is the worst kind of reaction you can have. Instead, strive to make your best music with the tools you have while constantly learning and seeing how you can make your current skill set and toolset better. Finally, I'll leave you with this bit of advice - you don't have to make your orchestral music sound realistic to have impact with your audience.    Thanks,    Nate To be truthful, I never stated his feedback was invalid. I'm being realistic. I'm not going to convince anyone it's a live string section with EWQLSO. Isn't that the point to convince someone that's it's a real string section? If so, I can't do it with the EWQLSO. That's just being realistic. I'm not talking out of thin air. I've tried to do mockups in EWQL, using every script and every articulation; but the mockups are not convincing.   In my experience with EWQL, simply using CC11 does not produce a realistic swell on keyswitching patches. In my opinion the velocity layers have drastically different volumes. How can you argue against that?   You asked what is the difference my music and other music using virtual instruments? Mainly the samples. Those other songs using virtual instruments have more realistic samples.   I've actually read up on the violin and have watched videos of a real violinist playing. There's simply things that can't be done realistically in EWQLSO. String melodies are one of those things.   The truth is that, something like Hollywood Strings Gold would give me a way more realistic sound. With more realistic legato, more articulations and sampled runs; I could get a way more convincing sound.   I just don't see the point spending hours trying to make realistic strings, with subpar string samples. Without something like Hollywood Strings or LASS; I'll almost always get "This or that sounds fake".   The production can be better yes. But there are simply some things that won't sound realistic in EWQL such as string melodies. But I don't even think Kasu commented on the production.   Now don't get me wrong. If you have a song with a lot of short articulations, can it sound realistic? Yes. But when you need to make convincing legato passages; it simply can't be done.   What actually would help me is improving my compositional skills. Trying to get a "live orchestra" sound from a library that's not capable; doesn't help me improve.
  5.   There are a lot more than just three velocities in EWQLSO. I agree that the music is nice and peaceful but the production value could be improved. Overall, nice track!   Well to me it sounds like mainly three velocities. There may be more than 3 velocities; but they're drastically different in volume, which is unrealistic.   The thing with EWQLSO is that there seem to be three velocities. Extremely soft, normal and extremely loud. So tweaking those velocities will make it sound even less realistic.   I don't think it has to do with attacks. I think it more has to do with how EWQL reacts to CC11. Without the Xfd patches; notes don't seem to realistically swell.   The short notes were trying to emulate shorter violin notes.   But I'm just using the composer trial for EWQLSO. I think I'll go for Hollywood Orchestra in the long run. It would just be easier to do more convincing stuff.     No, no and no... Did you use just one patch or did you try key switching patches so you can switch a better sample for shorter notes? If you don't want to learn how to do this with EWQLSO you're not going to do it with Hollywood orchestra either.   "notes don't seem to realistically swell" Yes they do exactly as they are supposed to do, you just need to choose an appropriate sample for each note to get the best out of it.   There is just so much of little articulation stuff that an (virtual) orchestrator needs to think when getting the string tracks right. Soft, hard, short, long, crescendo, diminuendo, trills, staccato, all the different bowing styles and positions etc. It's hard work to try to find the right stuff for each note, but gladly the key switch patches make it at least a little bit easier. And when you do it a while you start to learn where everything is in the sample library and it gets quicker.   Not to say that I can do it perfectly or even good, but it's just so much easier to point out stuff from other peoples music. I tend to become a bit deaf to my own music when doing it and listening it so many times so I don't even know anymore how every note should sound when the piece plays in my head so clearly.   "No, no and no" well it sounds like it to me. On most instruments if I slightly change the velocity, there's a huge difference in volume. You can tell me that's not the case; but that's what I hear.   If I use CC11, the notes don't swell realistically. I've tried to do mockups and just using CC11; the notes don't realistically swell.   You are right there are so many little articulations. A violinist can play marcato, legato, portamento, stacatto and other articulations. The legato script in EWQLSO just doesn't sound like a real violinist. Realistic portamento is limited to fixed speed slide samples. You mentioned bowing; that's another thing EWQL lacks. There is no up and down bowing samples for sustained strings.   Hollywood Strings has more convincing legato. The gold version also has up and down bowing samples.   The point is; is let's face it, no matter how much CC11 data I use, I'm not going to convince you it's a real string section with EWQLSO.   So until I get something like Hollywood Strings; I'm going to give up on making realistic string melodies. Hollywood Strings would make it easier to do convincing mockups like I said before.   It seems like a waste of time to try and make realistic strings with something that's not up to par.
  6. The thing with EWQLSO is that there seem to be three velocities. Extremely soft, normal and extremely loud. So tweaking those velocities will make it sound even less realistic.   I don't think it has to do with attacks. I think it more has to do with how EWQL reacts to CC11. Without the Xfd patches; notes don't seem to realistically swell.   The short notes were trying to emulate shorter violin notes.   But I'm just using the composer trial for EWQLSO. I think I'll go for Hollywood Orchestra in the long run. It would just be easier to do more convincing stuff.
  7. Hey, YoungProdigy here. Just finished "A Peaceful Village". I usually write aggressive orchestral themes; but I decided to write a peaceful theme this time. I tried to add more expression to the instruments, than my last piece. You can listen to it here: https://soundcloud.com/youngprodigymusic/young-prodigy-a-peaceful-village As always, feedback is welcome.
  8.   But you're not producing live recordings of orchestras.  You're producing video game scores and very, VERY often they'll have a lot of low end. They'll also often have fusions of electronic/synth or even EDM elements blended in with the orchestra. Is this true for every video game score? Of course not! Just look at the two tracks you cited above. But there are plenty of soundtracks where this is the case.    And if you want to start writing music commercially, like you've mentioned, then you need to start considering what kind(s) of music you're able and willing to provide to that market. Some devs/clients will want really heavy stuff while others will want lighter touches.    Hope that helps.    That's true. I'm not producing live recordings.   At the end of the day; it comes down to the style a composer is going for.   I am interested in going commercial with my music. I think I'm going to start out promoting myself as a "retro composer". After I make some money from that; I can sign up for the EWQL Composer Cloud thing and get Hollywood Orchestra. Hollywood Orchestra has true legato, more articulations and seems to be more realistic than EWQLSO. It would allow me to do much more convincing mockups in less time.
  9. Thanks for the comment.   However, adding realism to orchestral samples can be a hit or miss. You're a violinist, so you know that a violin player can play many articulations. A violinist can play detache, legato, marcato, portamento and many other articulations. Some of these articulations are difficult to simulate in EWQLSO convincingly.   To get super convincing strings; I would need something like Hollywood Strings; which has true legato. Hollywood Strings also has more samples of playing styles.   I have the mindset that; if you can't fool anyone into thinking that a piece was played by a real orchestra, why waste hours trying?     There is a lack of low end. But in live orchestral recordings, I usually don't hear that much low end.   For instance, Fang's Theme from Final Fantasy XIII: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdgF63xKTe0   Or the Cloudy Court Galaxy Theme from Super Mario Galaxy 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6d4lxw9FYM&index=48&list=PLotok_lebZxPnkNOTopTnoVGoz9dF4IKO   I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying the live recordings I've listened too don't seem to have too much low end.   I might try layering the bass drums with other instruments like you said.   Overall, I'll try to take your advice and improve the piece.
  10. Hey, YoungProdigy here. I signed up for the East West Composer Cloud trial and was able to download EWQLSO gold. "A Formidable Enemy" is my first song made using EWQLSO.   You can listen to it here: https://soundcloud.com/youngprodigymusic/young-prodigy-a-formidable-enemy   As always, feedback is welcome.
  11. "Realistic samples" are not cheap. Something like Hollywood Orchestra is $400 easily.   I wouldn't consider the stuff in that assets store "music like mine".   My music has more instruments, more sections and more chord changes. My songs are also more melodic than those songs.   I will advertise myself as a retro composer, like you said. But $3 is way too cheap for a full orchestral piece.   Maybe if I make a song with the same chord progression the whole song, with 4 instruments and a lack of melody I'll charge for $3.   For my stuff I would probably charge about $50-$100 for exclusive rights.   I paid $400 for my samples and DAW, why should I give my music away for so cheap?
  12. Thanks bschmidt1962. I'll definitely check out that survey.
  13. The thing is I can't really afford another library right now. My current sample library costed $300. Plus FL Studio, that's $400.   Even if I did get another library like Hollywood Orchestra; I wouldn't charge for cheap.   A one minute full orchestral piece takes 2 hours for me. Add super realistic samples to that and I wouldn't charge for cheap. I would charge about $300/minute at the minimum if I had something like Hollywood Orchestra. Composing a full orchestral piece is work  and requires a lot of experience. Plus mocking great samples up to sound like a real orchestra? That's a lot of work. and thus a lot of money.   But I've gotten positive feedback here and elsewhere on my music. So I may just start out charging at cheap rates.
  14. Your opinion isn't what counts - it's the opinion of your potential customers that counts. And the way to influence that opinion is with the best samples. So keep improving your samples.   Well it's not just my opinion. A lot of people on the forums I post have given me positive feedback on my compositions.   If I get any criticism it's mostly to do with my samples or the production of my music.   The only way to improve samples is to buy another library.   Still, as I've stated; a lot of people have given me good feedback on my compositions. Can I improve? Of course.   But I think I'm at the point where I want to start monetizing my music. I think my samples would be fine for indie games.   Now, for a big triple A CoD-esque shooter would my samples cut it? No. But for indie games they should be fine.
  15. Hey, YoungProdigy here. I want to try to and make money off of my music. I know I don't have the best samples; but I think I'm a pretty decent composer.   Here's my soundcloud: http://www.soundcloud.com/youngprodigymusic/   Overall, how much should I charge for music?   Should I charge on a per minute basis or charge for each track?