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Charles B

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  1. Dithering and 3D projection + bilinear filtering + lighting usually gives pretty ugly results. If you still choose this option I assume, either your textures are rather noisy, which can hide a lack of component depth and dither patterns, and rendering is rather static (for instance no dynamic lighting). Else I try an "out of the box" suggestion. Your are apparently mem limited, but are you GPU limited ? Instead of dithering couldn't you possibly decrease resolution for colors (1/4 of ref resolution) modulated by a detail map (8bits in ref resolution). This way you keep the same compression ratio, and for most natural textures, quality should be infinitely superior.
  2. Now if you want speed : You'll find many docs and samples on the sites of Nvidia or ATI. (Seek subjects like texture transfers, procedural, etc...) With more recent gl technologies like CopyTexSubImage, Pixel Buffers or Pixel Buffer Objects, the trend is that procedural textures become more and more popular. Generate many things on the fly and use some cache to improve details/realism/complexity. You will quickly see that ReadPixels is by far the less efficient method. As Fingers said, the goal is to stay as much as possible on the server side (in video memory)
  3. Else you can take a look at the glut.h header file. It totally removes the windows.h dependency. glut.h only defines the few Windows specifics required, and saves noticeable compilation time even when you work in the Windows context. This used to be a great advantage some years ago, but nowadays CPUs and compilers are so fast, it's not really an argument anymore ... Still if you do such a choice, which seems rather drastic, you must see it on a broader scale, as a discipline. Be accustommed to separate dependencies (concepts, compilation and linking) and split the project in well formed modules, well interfaced. I'd say it really pays on medium term. I have created many decent multi OS projects based on GL, and this scheme works quite well. It's very impressive and enjoyable to recompile a complex project developped many weeks on Windows and have it working fine on MAC OS in 5 minutes ! Anything OS dependent put separately in a library, with a modular approach (minimalist system server) and you have clean totally OS independent stuff for your core game engine project.
  4. Quote:Original post by Eelco Quote:Original post by Charles B When people are dying they would do anything to pay for the treatment, if it is possible for them. Alas it's obviously not the case, since the prices have been defined by western standards. These companies prefered to make benefits on rich western niches, save a few thousand rather than to plan a more massive production, which would have costed more in terms of initial investment, and delay the ROI. So granted that the patent is not broken, what do the company earn in the poor countries ? Nothing at all. People just don't buy anything, they die. Now when the patents are broken, what do these companies loose ? ... But what do they expect to gain ? Damages ? Logically and ethically silly, when millions die. I assume these companies are well aware of their options. they choose not to mass produce and sell at a lower price. what could possibly be a reason for this? it could be many, but i can only guess. Instead of guessing you could have eventually argued the (I think) very plausible hypothesis I gave : ROI and production capacity (because only a few companies and not many can use the patents). To strengthen this a lot, breaking news ! ;) Have you noticed that recently the EU forced a company from Switzerland, Roche, to lower prices (of licences) or cede rights of their bird flu vaccine and thus ensure mass production ? I only care half as much of your ethical opinions on this issue as you do for me. We won't go anywhere. I just compare realities. What EU does for its own good, saying its own right is simply the exact symetric of the right you deny to 3rd world countries concerning AIDS. Now given the harm of millions dying in one case, and only potential harm in the other, this argument of symetry and an observation of realities is unbeatable unless you invoke a principle of extreme racial superiority. Which is still your right, why not. Else I have never seen anyone pretend that Roche was economical harmed. It rather seems that its market value is exploding. Quote: self appointed humanists ... couldnt give them a hand with, no? No need to be humanist, just rational. We'll reap the consequences one way or another. I listed insecurity, I could have added more emigration pressure, or simply health of the world economy. For what benefits ? Do you think Bill Gates is a super humanist ? Now your helping hand idea is nonsensical because you completly neglect the digits. Forgot your multiplication tables ? Only a guy like Bill Gates can afford to pay billions and boost his popularity. But even him can only cover an infinitesimal part of what's needed. Because of what ? The market price asked, as it was defined by the limit of what was affordable in the health budgets of western countries to cure a few thousands of cases. So considering the ww needs are 2 or 3 orders of magnitude more, no power on earth could afford it. So the solution could only be in the hands of the patent owner, who decides the relevant ww price. Quote: Why cant you humanists just buy out the company, possibly at political gunpoint if they refuse, offering them return of their investment with an appropriate multiplier for the risky busines they are in ? It would still be fishy, but would respect that. Your proposal looks a bit utopist to me. Are you sure they wish to sell or do they prefer to make long term profits since the pandemia is sure to expand for decades whatever the human losses (in the current conditions) ? Else what kind of gun ? I thought the USA had nukes too. And when a company possesses a chicken with golden eggs, leaders usually don't like to loose opportunities of adding to their trade balance. Quote: Expecting this hypothetical company, an amoral entity by definition, to comply to a moral standard that, of cource not by you nor cows, but by the rest of the world assuredly, is so firmly and consistently dragged through the mud, is something i will never respect. Is there some sarcasm ? Do you intend I live in a bubble, and not you ? You read the news, concerning India vs EU/USA at the WTO, right ? You know the population of India or China, OK. I don't give a sh*t of your respect on this issue. The arguments are autosufficient by logic and world realities. Quote: I dont know about the french health system, but ours is just undergoing a mayor overhaul, after which the incentive to buy such medicine on the street rather than through more convential channels would certainly be compelling. It's not about aspirin. Else sure if minimal law enforcement seems out of reach to you. I don't know who is the most irrealist concerning this precise point. In any case if such a situation arose, I have no doubt that the lawyers of the company could get huge benefits in damage from the incriminated states, in front of the WTO, or any tribunal. Quote: I can assure you i have no connection with the medical research industry or their lobbies whatsoever, yet i find 'their' arguments quite compelling. The argument that investments have to be repaid, I wrote it, OK. It is perfectly legitimate. But they are repaid consequently enough in 1st world countries. But I demolished the economical or ethical arguments beyond that, in the 3rd world. The only point that may still be argued more in details concerns the risk of contraband. Else yes it's your right to be naive and self contradicting. You said amoral entity, not me. Take the consequences of your own cynical vision of economy. Just as if for instance Monsanto really cared of the wealth of the peasants of India on long term. 6000 have already suicided because of these thugs. Nowadays CEOs always flee with the benefits before the clashes come. Remember Enron ? What's been reapped is not to be taken anymore. Quote: Under which universal principle (enforcing the western patent system)? The same that has always, and always will, govern everything. The law of the strongest. Better get used to it. Used to it ! LOL Personnally I don't live in the middle ages atm. Is "the law of the strongest" the current constitution of Holland ? LOL And what's your definition of strength ? Being so blind with ones momentaneous strength that you forget the "weakest" is 10 times more numerous, has nukes and grows at a 10% rate ? In my historical knowledge, I'd rather say that such a strength belongs to the "empires" near their final collapse. There is one thing I am certain of, even in our selfish west, a majority of citizens are not as unconsequent as what you suggest with such a claim on this precise subject. Patent rights are not based on the law of the strongest in principle. Did you finally spin by 180 degrees ? LOL But today Brasil of India use their vital strength. It's their own law of the strength in one way. So in one sense you are right. And I also think they are right. Simply they do it for their survival and their right is now infinitely reinforced by the bird flu example in the EU. In a any case they are 100% right, by your own arguments or mine. I just wrote that's common sense. [Edited by - Charles B on November 16, 2005 8:57:09 PM]
  5. @all the patent extremists The argument that the AIDS patent broken by necessity in poor african or asian countries do any harm to the patent holders and companies is a pure fallacy and hypocrisy. When people are dying they would do anything to pay for the treatment, if it is possible for them. Alas it's obviously not the case, since the prices have been defined by western standards. These companies prefered to make benefits on rich western niches, save a few thousand rather than to plan a more massive production, which would have costed more in terms of initial investment, and delay the ROI. So granted that the patent is not broken, what do the company earn in the poor countries ? Nothing at all. People just don't buy anything, they die. Now when the patents are broken, what do these companies loose ? ... But what do they expect to gain ? Damages ? Logically and ethically silly, when millions die. Now the last specious argument concerning potential contraband from south to north. Damn where do you think people get these treatment in the developped societies, that is where the profits are (and it's right, OK) ? It's not even a question of border control. It's just a question of control inside the very well regulated health systems and hospitals, just consider heatlh security reasons. In one word, all these arguments are just a big lobby BULLSHIT prop. Irrelevant from any viewpoint : economical, ethical, and ... ww security. Millions of orphans, many become soldiers of fortune for corrupted militarians or terrorists. And may I point out that Pakistan or India now has nukes. The USA should beware not to piss too many billions of people with (ante)christian hypocrisy, arrogance, lies, corruption, greediness and total lack of humanity. Even Bill Gates realized something had to be done in this case. And it was not about profit this time. Last thing, the US patent system (and EU with it) proves everyday how fucked up it is with hilarious (if it was not that grave) examples. None of the ethical or scientifical premises of the system remains valid in a quantity of cases. And with a blistering arrogance the USA and lobbies in EU too do as if every other nations had to submit to their fat unlawful lawyers. Under which universal principle ? It's not about patents in general, it's about the fucked up western system of patents. Historical origin : the royal letters of patent. Did you know that ? By permission of the Queen, you my dear pirates and merchants have this letter to exploit in our name the void territories of Africa and India (as if the natives were less than cattle). And we're quasi back to this point. That's the so called modern capitalism of today. Some liberal philosophers might spin in their graves.
  6. Quote:Original post by Tron3k Quote:Original post by Dmytry and yes, i think third word countries have moral righ to break the patents to create the anti AIDS medicine for their people. The only thing that companies owning the patent lose is ability to make big profit out of poor people of third word countries. (even more, usually there is some negotiations before changing the law, and law is changed only if companies push unreasonable prices. Afterall the company already knows the process and could produce the medications much cheaper than third world country ever could, so there is need to violate the patent only if conpany wants to get extra profit beyong what could be paid)Anyone who thinks as you do has very little understanding of The Invisible Hand of free-market capitalism that comes up with these drugs in the first place. Either patents must hold worldwide, or not hold at all. If you try to enforce patents in own area and not in another, the Invisible Hand will see your bluff: almost all the anti-AIDS medicine sold cheaply in Africa will be sent back to America and sold at high prices. The ultimate point is this: the system of patents inflates the value of developing a great AIDS drug, thus allowing The Invisible Hand to work for the benefit of those in need of such drugs. Without a patent system, the value of an AIDS drug to the developer of said drug is virtually nil. And, as I argued above, destroying the patent system in one area is tantamount to destroying it worldwide. And, oooh, evil companies wanting to get "extra profit beyond what could be paid". Read this: Profits vs. Love. I wish more people understood economics. I wish more people just understood common sense and logic. Your invisible hand is the cause of millions dying in Africa and Asia (AIDs). That's the raw material you have to deal with in priority and not your bla bla link. Ever heard of currency rates ? It would be very easy to point out the fallacious logic, arguments, and methodology of such a demonstration. The most obvious is that the link depicts a little story, a very narrow example and attempts to extract a general principle out of it. And this supposedly applies to the world of economics that is infinitely more complex than this simplistic case (very small subset). It's basically the same erronous syllogism as saying : all X are Y thus all Y are X. Ensembles logic does not work like this. It's stupidly arrogant to imagine that the many people in the world who criticize the side effects of generalized untamed market laws are unaware of the theoretical and practical principles of modern capitalism. It's also stupid to imagine that the world is all capitalist or all communist. What a lack of imagination or historical culture. Many models, outside the box and not just in between have existted and exist potentially or effectively. Saying otherwise is like "With us or against us". It's being brightly dogmatic and dualist, fundamentally the same error as stalinism ! You also seem to be unaware or dimiss the fundamental errors of modelisation that several nobel prices of economy have pointed out in the recent years : - The homo economicus is a pure abstraction, and does not exist, anywhere on the entire planet. It does not correspond at all to the human nature. Several recent studies (take American Science) show that perfectly. Human beings don't always think of personnal profit. When some agents have too selfish behaviours other people prefer to sacrifice some of their momentaneous benefits to punish the bad goats. And despite the conclusions have not been clearly infered, it's very easy to see many good reasons why this social darwinism was not aleatory. It's based on some social intelligence gathered through the ages. - The reality is far more complex that the infinite space of wealth the capitalist model supposes (wealth increasing endlessly) in any field of life. There are some malthusian constraints like limited ressources, endangered ecological balances (cf GMOs). I don't even speak of the worse aspects like ethnical or nationalist issues. - The theory of polycentrism supposes that informations are not biased between spheres of specialists. Which is completly untrue. It's rightly this bias that make lawyers and advertising companies grab most of the benefits while they are at best non productive in practice. I would rather call your understanding of economics dogmatic, simplistic, americano centered, and certainly theoretically unfounded. Can you list the predicates and axioms behind the theories that nowadays found the neo-capitalism. For instance how the property rights have been justified by the main liberal philosophers through the ages ? Can you list the philosophers, mathematicians, and economists who have founded the newest liberal (original european meaning, not the devoid US terminology where liberal is pro choice and conservative pro life) vision of economy ? Then if you really knew the premises of your dogmas, you would also see clearly the very visible paradoxes and counter examples that the globalization of capitalism nowadays exhibits. Last point, food for thoughts : communist (75% still owned by the state) China wins the capitalist game. Isn't it strange ? What's wrong the terminology, the theory ? [Edited by - Charles B on November 16, 2005 2:48:39 PM]
  7. I just watched a TV program about GMOs, etc... It was said that 3rd world countries can not practically resist to biological piracy (firms thieve natural essences, isolate molecules, genes and then patent new GMOs or drugs based on them). It's because none can patent natural organisms. Patents give a limited (in time principally) ownership over a principle (intellectual and material), not just any object. So there are very precise juridical texts that speak of it. (If anyone dares to find the previously refered texts) Now the analogy with the issue of the thread is quite obvious. The question in the case of this thread was supposedly : does this man own IP rights on his body ? I would answer that of course the man owns every part of his body. This is also the right pro choice supporters invoke : mothers own their body and the foetus, before 3 weeks inmost legislations, that is before it's "medically" and "ethically" considered another human being. BTW these medical and ethical questions are the crux of the matter concerning abortion. Ethics always come into play, not only the preexisting texts. Each legal situation creates specific concerns. But obviously he did not own the cancerous cells (right ?) as soon as they were extracted from his body to save his life. Because he signed (even implicitely) to be operated and saved. And the operation process obviously does not implicate that the cell will be restituted. (If it was his arm, then possibly he could have asked to get it back, frozen to be reimplanted later, I don't know :). So in any case he did not own these cells anymore, a fortiori as they were natural organisms. And with a 100% certainty he did not have any IP value attached to his cell. If there ws any kind of property it's not an IP property. So he would certainly have hrd times to ask for royalties. HE could only eventually ask for damages. IP value has been added after the work done by the scientist. I would even go further, and possibly deny a part of the IP to the scientists, depending on the work thay have done around this cell to make a principle of a new drug. It's the complex issue of the "red" biotechnologies. Somehow in the same manner I think most patents in the "green" biotechnologies are very abusive. And I don't talk of the other important issues were de facto firms like Mossanto harm the natural property of numerous people, nearly the whole world (through dissemination, harming bio-cultures, danger of monoculture with increased risks of pandemia and famines).
  8. Charles B

    Whats going on in France ?

    @Eelco I don't think a mere attention should be granted to such pseudo-scientific studies. Intelligence is not a one dimensionnal space. Thus IQ tests are very relative. What remains certain is you can find bright and dumb people of any race. That's why such generalizations do not bring much : you always face individuals in the end. I also think that many arabs I have met are very witty. Many blacks I have met also have deep social intuitions. I don't generalize though. The way IQ tests are done are certainly very "western" (as the current mainstream model of a technically evolved civilization) centric. Also asians often have a good ability to count or think fast. This may be due to the structure of their language. But generally I find their way of thinking not very inspired to find very original ways. It's very subjective though, this may be a cultural barrier. Most geniuses in modern times were europeans. But this just tells something about history and cultures more than genes I think. Work with algorithms and programmation, you get accustommed to deal very fast with patterns and this experience brings you 10 or 30 more pts of IQ. Given the IQ I am supposed to have I frankly doubt this measures intelligence since when I look back I often consider I was just very dumb two minutes ago. Maybe this minute also :)
  9. Charles B

    Whats going on in France ?

    This continues. But govt says the measures (couvre-feu) made the number of events drop, which is statistically true. Maybe the riotters need to sleep a bit. It seems the fires extinguish though. One of the main reasons is that the inhabitants there (thus parents, friends, neighbours, etc..) of the riotters are more than fed up, even those who reckon the rage is justified. The motives are very vague, but really a thin minority believes in these methods of guerilla. 75% in France wanted and approved this couvre feu. And the same digits must also be true in the cites. It was mostly pure hooliganism equivalent to the riots in UK (and EU) 20 years ago with punks or skinheads. The religious or political components do not seem to be deep and vivid, more some kind of masquerade and folklore. [Edited by - Charles B on November 9, 2005 11:11:46 AM]
  10. Charles B

    Whats going on in France ?

    Quote:Original post by sinx Quote: ... Tonight your government is going to "resurect" a 50 years old law that was used after world war 2 to help control insurgents in your colonies... lets hope they avoid the pitfalls they went trougth at that time and resolved this issue for the good of everyone. No animosity at all here too, why would a french argue with a canadian, tell me ? ROFL. It's just for the style of polemics. I know that we certainly do not have so different conceptions, but knowledge and experience differ. I reacted strongly because of the lack of refinement of your initial presentation of the situation here. I am not 100% certain, but I think this "couvre feu" is highly necessary when normal citizen lives are endangered this way. A.t.m. I think this just means u18s are not allowed to roam at night, after 22pm ! What a drastic measure ! I doubt this revives the colonial wars per se ! Do you remember the starting point of the story ? How many combinations of equivalent accidents can be imagined while buses, schools, churches, groceries burn and shotguns are fired, if kids take this new environment as their new playground ?
  11. Charles B

    Whats going on in France ?

    Quote:Original post by kseh I don't particularly see much in the way of people hating or fearing other people because of their race, but we definatly still form our own stereotypes and prejudices. Lots of disparity in Canada which could create real racism if things go badly enough. Yes and that's what make people like Le Pen play some role at one point or another, because they can play the prophets at one moment or another : "I told you so". And this backs their demagogy with an undeserved credibility. So beware of angelism or hypocracy. The problems must be detected soon enough, not when it's too late. For instance when the parents and adults in theses cites have lost all authority on their children. Then you get professionnal riotters and gangsters. (to respond to Lessbread and those worried ...) Last week-end I was in an underground and popular bar / nite-club, with a very mixed population (arabs, blacks, asians whites, punks, middle class) and I did not see any racial or social tension at all. You certainly have some drug dealers, even thieves in such places. Still isn't it strange for a racist country, while such relatively grave events happen ? But should I generalize since I only live 365 days a year in this country ? ;)
  12. Charles B

    Whats going on in France ?

    Quote:Original post by sinx i stand behind my opinions and no matter how many foreigners friends you say you have or wich wedding you attended ( hehehe soooo unrelated ) you give the impression of a racist person trough your comments. 50% of foreigner friends or 10% or 90% is not an indication on the racist prejudice that may or may not come out of you... So unrelated ? LOL What is related then ? Tomatoes and potatoes ? Are you kidding me, since when Ku Klux Klan members second black people in their weddings ? Or since when a neo-nazi would choose(I mean choice) to live in a quarter full of blacks and arabs ? Would a racist do that, for which weird reasons then ? Well whatever... I don't care of this personnal debate. It's just how you distorted it all to bash my elements as untrue of the french situation. Quote: I am not the only one to think France is a relatively racist nation. You have very tense inter-racial dynamics in your country and its a KNOWN fact... KNOWN, LOL ! By you ? Such opinions you know ... racist opinions ? Or is it : "Japanese are racist" : racist. "French are racist" : anti-racist. Then I understand things a bit better. Your knowledge looks vast concerning France. You've been there once, visited Le Louvre and then a cité ! I can remember tenth of people who have been to America (less to Canada) and have had some impressions of utterly disgusting racism. But would I generalize ? Quote: I would suggest Canada as the least racist nation, here integration doest mean fitting people in our standarts ... it means celebrating our differences and making it all work no matter how different we are... No matter how different ? If one wants the Sharia and one wants nazism ? What do you say ? What if each guy talks a different tongue and others don't understand ? Does it helps exchanges and brotherhood ? Let me LOL if this is the summum of your ideal. There is always a need of a strong coherence, convergence of interests in any society. A social pact. Each country has specificities. Canada, it's another way, another story, another landmass. Maybe it's less racist, whatever, nothing in what you wrote shows me an argument to decide wether it's less or more racist. I just remark it's different. I am modest, you see. And who cares ? Did I ever say Canada is a racist nation ? And what did you say about France ? But you know, even next to Londonistan, many english used to say the same thing just a few months ago. It's cool to negate racism by having communities living quasi separately and just let em play the bongos once in a while. You don't hear much about racism this way. Canada is not very racist, sure. But tell me more how you select immigrants. Please ;) And do you also have 6 million muslims there while it's the world mess (Iraq, Palestinia, etc...) everyone knows ? Quote: France has laws that ban people from wearing some "ethnic" clothing in schools or while working for the gouvernment. Yes because headscraves, a religious artefact, was used as a trojan horse for more racist antisemtic tensions. And a law preexisted, it's been reestablished de facto. Point. I don't care to explain it to you since you'll never make the effort to understand on which historical background and context this decision was taken. Anyway it succeeded quite well in its goals. Racist and anti-female tensions at schools lowered a lot. Quote: I know you said your integration laws are your culture + their culture whithout any substraction... but thats just being hypocrite and you cant deny that. France does as some strict emmigration / integration laws. Not sure wether you are mixing very different issues here or not. Talking of control at borders ? Very permissive in facts, but still under the enormous potential pressure of african clandestines, they are strengthened year by year at the EU scale, and this sometimes causes problems of human rights. Integration is not about foreigners, it's about naturalized emmigrants. I don't know what you call strict in this case since the law in France, as in any state of law, is the same for every citizen. It does not make much sense. Else I am not hypocritical at all, I just made the image unclear maybe. I opposed additive mixing to substractive mixing, a bit like in the color space. Communautarism is substractive. People are uprooted (loose roots), they only take a few aspects of their new country (also loose elements of it). Integrationism is let everyone add. Of course some uncompatible elements must be left behind. For instance forget the Sahria law, at least the uncompatible parts. You can't have two coexisting law codes in one country. And I heard a story about Canada where muslim clerics were entitled to override the canadian laws in some cases. I just find that foolishly absurd. Quote: I believe our cultural integration policies are far more advance and appropriate then yours. You are right the history of Canada is so comparable. It must be because you advanced faster, not the tons of free ressources and acres of free space. By selecting the manpower you need rather drastically, you make the situation easier to handle, right. I am still not very sure of where to put a qualificative of advancement anyway. There are probably some good ideas in these immigration policies of Canada, I don't know them precisely. But policies don't transpose as easilly as you seem to imagine to various contexts. Quote: As for Le-pen. well he could not even exist in a country like Canada. I don't know enough about Canada. But I am sure you also have some demagogues. Le Pen exists mainly due to the fact that our right is more on the left on many subjects than most conservative parties in other countries. And this created a void space for such a demagogue. But people more often vote for him to protest. Remember that blacks or arabs also vote for him. His quasi neo-nazi past is true, (and is still the truth of the man in depth), but his political visibility is mainly artificial. It covers the space of demagogy, and you have it in nearly every country, except UK maybe. But I'd say in UK right wing demagogy has been maintained as one conmponent of the torries. Quote: I have a friend whos name is " Bonfils " ... This truely exists. But there are laws that protect from it, seriously. You case is blattant and many other exist, more often in a much more subtle way. But such discrimation exists in anby country. I am certain that I can trap canadian companies by trying the same CV and several names. But extrapolating from one case is just far more impressive than what I did with my friends. My feeling is more that old generations are far more racist than the last. And the recruiters are more often from these generations. Quote: The amount of people representing the ethnic minorities in your gouvernment is ridiculous... your nation is 15% immigrant or even more.. yet you have 1% or less of minorities in your polical system ( ive heard of only 2 politicians actually ) This depends on which immigration generation you are talking about. And there are many other ethnical oddities, the ammount of corsicans or brittons is enormous, just like the scotts in UK. But that does not tell much except that there is no positive discrimination atm. You have Condoleeza Rice in the USA, but how many generations. Now Sarkozy ? Does it sound french to you ? If you talk of maghrebin representatives, it's true, but not many of them are physicians or lawyers. And as a matter of fact many professional politicans are today, the reasons for this state of things are complex but this has nothing to do with racism. When the parents hardly speak french as they arrive, the probability to make the best studies is lower. The causes are not racist, I don't doubt this will change one day soon. Quote: Minorities are kept away from the best jobs and re-directed toward cheap labor downward spirals.... this is an observation made by many. Pay yourself a visit to Vancouver or Toronto... you will see how a multi-cultural city can work perfectly and give equal chances to everyone... How funny, chinese also tend to succeed very well here too, in less generations. Could this have to do with industry declining, the towers, etc... all the process I explained. Would this have to do with the financial system of the chinese to support their parents ? But you'd maybe call me a racist while I just report things in a comparble manner as you do concerning Canada. Now dig for your own answers ... since your threshold of tolerance looks very low. Which is strange for an antiracist. Quote: Maybe thats why we have such a low treshold for racist comments too, or even ambiguous comments... ambiguously racist is considered racist here PERIOD. To me your threshold looks more like prejudices, egocentrism, overgeneralization, that is very close to racism. Man Canada is not France ! History and geography differ quite a bit, immigration stats too. If you like a country with one city chinese, one city french, one city english. Well it's just a kind of mini UN.That's not a true country to me, and that does not look to me very much of the ideal of a society where races do not count ! Now interracial breeding rates ? Still not interested to know about the only undiscutable scale that one can imagine to test wether a country is racist or not in the heart and soul ? Flesh and blood and not just in worthless partial political appreciations ? Tell me that this has nothing to do ! Or is there something shocking here ? [Edited by - Charles B on November 8, 2005 3:27:01 PM]
  13. Charles B

    Whats going on in France ?

    Quote:Original post by paulecoyote I don't remember anything on the BBC accusing France as a nation being racist. I would not put it past some more of the sensationilist rags and politically motivated networks though. Well I was obvioulsy not speaking of Rolls Royce ... Quote: Reading between the lines from the reports I've seen, I'd say that there is some kind of external influence trying to stir things up in vunerable communities, and thus causing problems for the government. Like discovering that bomb factory... it all seems rather premeditated... perhaps a subversive form of terrorism? It would be naive to imagine there was no preparation at all. But it would still be naively paranoid to imagine it's all a large scale terrorist conspiracy. Still the link between some terror groups, some foreign imams and some youths is well established. And the risk to me is that this large scale but still low intensity insurrection constitutes a perfect smoke screen that could be used to hide a more radical operation. And the bet of the terrorists would then be clear : try to iginite a real civil war in the already sulfurous context. Simply their way of thinking will make them fail miserably, just as they failed in London. They see our countries as passive or overeactive. They see them a bit too much like themselves. They don't really understand the mentality of the huge majority that still believes in democracy. Europe is capable of cold blood, cull between the bastards and the casual citizens, very easilly. Skin color or honest religious practice has nothing to do with it.
  14. Charles B

    Whats going on in France ?

    Quote: Original post by sinx Quote: some police forces act unconsequently or brutally, because they are unprepared or because some become racist by tiredness and depression " yeah i hate being unprepared for a task.. makes me racist too... just like after a hard day of work or when i feel down.. i get so racist.... THESES ARE EXCUSES for being racist... HE IS TRYING TO RATIONALISE WHY ITS OK TO BE RACIST IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES !!! how much more racist quotes do you want from him ? If you think so, you are a fool and it's not being racist since I don't know your race. I gave enough proofs of it, I am just the extreme opposite of a racist, I won't reckon you no your rights for starting a pissing distance contest with me on this subject. Where did I write "ITS OK" ? Explaining is not justifying. It's being able to understand, make a true judgment and solve problems. If you don't understand much of the situation, in depth, I also don't feel enough compassion and understanding for that. Quote: being unprepared for a task.. makes me racist too There was a OR ! Do you know boolean logic ? OR can be XOR (and is in this case) Unpreparation : Leads to spreading oil on fires sometimes, when there is no racism at all at start. Can't you see the GIs in Iraq for instance ? You know not everyone shows the same cold blood as you do. Do you know that those in place in these cites are generally the least experienced and young policemen. Some have never lived near a cite, and feel a bit like the GIs in Iraq, every proportion kept. So instead of yelling like a nut ... could you try to understand what was intended in my writings. Would you do better than them in a situation of extreme stress ? Don't you know that a base of racism not listening and judging too quickly. I like you very politically correct morality. I bet that with your COOL emotional reactions you'd become a racist cop after two weeks of job in the riots. Once one of your friend has been killed or severely injured, once you have seen fireman being insulted and lapided. Or you'd become a riot nut in the minute after you have seen urban violence and a cop hit "unfairly" one of our friends. Unpreparation feeds the vicious circle of racism expanding, mainly in intensity, in some nut heads. But the truth is that its growth is limited numerically because France is fundamentally anti-racist (83% voted against Le Pen). Again it's not a nation built around a particular folk. When people don't devide emotions, prejudices and fail the minimal efforts of understanding, that's with such reactions that we end up in the mess. I gave every detail to understand a process, nearly, and it added far more to your first post, if you had read it carefully. This gives even clues on how the issue could be solved. [Edited by - Charles B on November 8, 2005 12:49:45 PM]
  15. Charles B

    Whats going on in France ?

    Quote:Original post by sinx Quote: Most of your knowledge of the situation contains true elements but some details or fallacies make the whole extremely biased and caricatural, in a typical anglo-saxon way to bash France. theres a stereotypical way to see anglo-saxon people if i ever saw one... i am francophone ! :) my main language is french !!! i was born speaking french and i have done it all my life... how was i bashing ? LOL ! This should prove your perspicacity : "France is a racist nation". And that's exactly the main stereotype I noticed so many times in the american and english media. I am not naive I read english press nearly each week ! My words are never groundless. Even if I know the significant differences, the fact that you are from Quebec does not change fundamentally the area of mediatic common thought you are living in. The further you live from a country, the shortest the news are and thus the more inclined to overgeneralizations. The reverse is less true the other way (the USA perceived in the EU) because we are far more informed through the economical hegemony of US/UK media. Quote: " could make one perceive that " how can you think i was bashing... I perfectly noticed this "french" (proximity with french realities) touch. But it was a very late correction in the formal construction of your sentence. Quote: I have the impression that you think i was in favor of all those riots... Your paranoia here ;) Quote: further explained it adding some bashing and racist comments troughout ... Oh well ! That must be true ! Let's see it ROFLMAO Quote: so i dont understand why you reacted so strongly hehe maybe its that stereo-typical french way of over-reacting i keep hearing about. I may give you this point. Gallic or latin temper whatever ... though it's just another "racist" generalization, but it may hold some truth. Concerning me, I just deeply dislike unfairness and fallacies. Racism is a far too big word. Racism was linked to the eugenist theories of the SS. Else mixing social discriminations, xenophobia and racism is a dangerous path. It weakens the meaning as long as hypocrites overexploit it, and add layers over layers of separate truths to it. Quote: -There is also some "racism" by landowners You probably understood the quotes refered to a social and economical process. Zola described pretty well how the rich don't like poors in the neighboorhood. Now this society of bankers and insurances lead to such situations, risks are the evil, fear the fuel. If's not principally racism, it's more social discrimination and the normal deviance of capitalism anyway. - Ethnical and unintegrated concentration also aggravated the process. Integrationism is JUST the opposite of racism. It's what your american background refuses to consider as essential in this issue. It's the french ideal. Integrationism is helping a melting pot, where people exchange the best, and add it to the common pot. Communautarism (which is segregation) is what happened because France could not handle this new demographic pressure quantitatively. At least not in 2 generations concerning the africans. Still many arabs or africans have already succeeded, quite well and quickly. Simply there is a problem of mass. "- It's stupid to blame one reason mainly. Racism, unemployement, architecture, material means ? The initial cause is the quantitative influx of immigrants in the 70s" Can you tell me the relation between demographic concerns and racism ? A french lower class worker uprooted in China, would have the same difficulties : adapt to a totally different language and culture. And if the situation makes him live in tower with immigrants only, the result would be the same. Can't you understand that these towers were a response to a quantitative issue ? And that this technically is why the model shifted from integration (the ideal) towards communautarism (the issue). If you seek the roots of this evil, you can go back to WW2, WW1, the Napoleonian wars, the monarchy exhausted its ressources as it supported America. It's a longwave demographic process, with french specificities (center of many EU conflicts). So where is racism (in a moral meaning), telling that newcomers have difficulties is racist ? ROFLMAO ? What's next ? "You can not have specific problems man, I can't help you else I would be racist". I m not kidding. It's what happens with some politically correct antiracist hypocracy. "- Le Pen. In the 80s his "mediatisation" of racist and xenophobic expression" Yes. Le Pen represents 5% of truely racist cretins. You'll find 5% racist cretins in every country. What I meant is this had consequences in how immigrants, already weakened socially, ended to perceive France. If 1 guy in 20 insults you or one cop in 20 beats you unfairly because of racist prejudices, then you have a great deal of probability to become racist in reaction too. And this virus is a process that radicalizes part of the police and the riotters of today. But this does not require the whole society to be racist. "- details or fallacies make the whole extremely biased and caricatural, in a typical anglo-saxon way" That's not racism. It's objectivity. And it was precisely on your "France is a racist nation" point, which I have seen several times on US or UK networks. POINT. You are the one to blame for this parenthesis. Anyway it's not US/UK specific, bias always exists, specially when concern and information is low, and more when a situation of competition and rivalry exists (US/EU or UK/Fr). When you have guys like Murdoch and neo cons cabalists, things get even worse. "- a reaction of racism (against the perceived diffuse racism) or jihadism could complete the moral gap" Seems you have a moral problem to deal with realities. Oh don't tell me the truth, racist ! LOL I have met and discussed with such guys, I know what I am talking about ! You always need somethignto fill your soul and avoid a complete depression. "- american voicy nuts prophetize the worst with barely hidden contempt." Very subtle and honest to remove the some ! Would I care if you told the truth : Le Pen is racist ? 5% of nuts. Alas the problem is YOU wrote a "racist nation". You should not care when I say that some neo-cons nuts say so (I'd guess they are more than 5% to be anti-french racists these days). Because It's what I have read from them, just a few hours ago. I never write anything groundlessly. "- money (risk) is more the reason : arab or black = poor = more risks not to be payed" Pff. There re some characterized racist behaviours surely. The same 5% or 10% maybe. But once again, you fail to see it's "social segregation" not "skin color racism" principally. Anyway social discrimination alone is just enough to appear as racist. People just care of their money. What's your job ? Where do you live actually ? Ah, "Le Slum" ... Well he could be a gangster. Laws exist and try to fight this trend. But in depth it's mainly social and economical. And that's why the former process of gethoization (the towers) is hard to reverse. "- some police forces act unconsequently or brutally, because they are unprepared or because some become racist by tiredness and depression" Yes they are also insulted and brutalized by those who have been insulted by, etc ... That's the vicious circle I mentionned. And what about Rodney ? There is nothing specific to France, nuts everywhere ... - Else I remember once, near my flat, an immigrant worker was so tired (or drunk) that he let his meal burn, I managed to help stopping the fire as it started Quote: yeah immigrant workers are drunk all the time and put peoples live in danger while being drunk... and France is the least racist nation in the world I knew this guy, and even shared drinks with him, I just report bare facts ! It's up to your imagination and bias to introduce this racist correlation. Typical of devoid anti-racist and hypocritical political correctness. In the end, you try to infer that a guy (me) who chose to live in a difficult area, who had 50% of foreign friends, groomsman of a malian who married a girl from brittany, well this guy is racist ! ROFLMAO ! Don't you see that you are the only responsible of inducing racism ! You'd be amazed to hear what arab or african people can tell about immigration. If you suspect me of racism, well you'd be amazed ... It's true some are over sensitive. But they soon reckonize sincerity, they praise the words of truth, because this means consideration for their true story. But they laugh at the fearful pseudo-antiracist hypocrites of the bourgeoisie who would never put a real step in their direction. Else, got these digits of interracial weddings instead of jackassing because I was honest enough to expose the causes, all of them ? But you distorted it all to let it appear as a justification of your first claim "racist nation". And ou engulfed me with it. That's the only characterized "racist" process I have seen here ;) I have been to several places too, and I have been discussing with strangers who have been living in various countries. Who genocided the indians ? The aborigens ? The jews ? The armenians ? Massacrated Nankin ? I doubt many nations in the world can tell anything to France concerning racism. Who established the human rights and spread it all over the planet ? Such things can not have been created by a racist nation. This nation has never been built on a race. I hope you enjoyed being 99% OK with that ! :) [Edited by - Charles B on November 8, 2005 12:20:57 PM]
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