I must agree with one of the recent posts that, when I last looked at the NPCAI project (a month or two ago, I concede), it looked like people were piling on ideas, adding complexity, without really having a clear idea of how it would be implemented. I mean, I know the idea is to design first, implement later, but I think the problem is this: the project was set up to write games with ''better'' (loose adjective, I know) AI than current games, yet on the other hand, current games don''t have AI this good because it is very difficult to do so. The project aims to succeed where many highly paid professionals have so far failed. There are a billion and one ideas, some ideas about the meta implementation, but not much detail. Sometimes you just bite off more than you can chew. And sometimes you run the risk of implementing a simple thing in an overcomplicated way. For example, you can -simulate- market fluctuations just by multiplying 3 or 4 sine waves together. The result is great and ''realistic'', even though the implementation involved ''cheating''.
I can''t help but feel this kind of problem requires more of an iterative approach: write a good general AI, then try extending it. The project (as I last saw it) was trying to be everything to everyone by starting at too low a level, and looked more like a sociology paper with UML than a serious proposition for programming better computer games. Couldn''t it be useful to try and program something similar to the Ultima 7 system detailed above, except moving it a little more towards a needs-based system?
Feel free to correct me: it''s been a while since I had the time to check up on the project.
RPG NPC AI, Scheduling and Needs...
I can see where you are coming from, Kylotan. I can''t say I''ve been keeping up w/ their AI project really well. It did seem like they were coming up w/ some nice solid code though, so I have faith.
It does seem that AI is something that is sometimes better to build from the simpler and then just keep making it "smarter". That may not work w/ things like graphics engines, but for AI I think it seems to work better.
"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.
Click here to see my current project.
It does seem that AI is something that is sometimes better to build from the simpler and then just keep making it "smarter". That may not work w/ things like graphics engines, but for AI I think it seems to work better.
"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.
Click here to see my current project.
Author
Thanks Nazrix 
First step: Brainstorming, get all ideas, talk about them, look at how they fit into one another and discard the less good ones
Second step: Design the system. retrieve all ideas and describe by words how it works, try a few examples to see what can go wrong, where and why, and redesign until it seems to work.
Third step: Begin to code, clear up all what have been done, redefine classes and choose how it''ll work, and why.
Code it without ANY optimisation so it must be easy to understand.
Fourth step: Test a first sample/beta implementation to make sure everything is going the way you want, and to find problems.
Solve them, redesign the code if necessary.
Fifth step: finish the coding and test the final implementation.
At various steps, we are looking at what we want, how easy we want it to be, and how we can make everything as we like.
We are at the end of step two, beginning of step 3.
And you know MS is a big firm with hundreds of professionnal and billion dollars but they produce Windows, while Linux is made by amateurs/non paid professionnal and it''s... Linux :p
First step: Brainstorming, get all ideas, talk about them, look at how they fit into one another and discard the less good ones
Second step: Design the system. retrieve all ideas and describe by words how it works, try a few examples to see what can go wrong, where and why, and redesign until it seems to work.
Third step: Begin to code, clear up all what have been done, redefine classes and choose how it''ll work, and why.
Code it without ANY optimisation so it must be easy to understand.
Fourth step: Test a first sample/beta implementation to make sure everything is going the way you want, and to find problems.
Solve them, redesign the code if necessary.
Fifth step: finish the coding and test the final implementation.
At various steps, we are looking at what we want, how easy we want it to be, and how we can make everything as we like.
We are at the end of step two, beginning of step 3.
And you know MS is a big firm with hundreds of professionnal and billion dollars but they produce Windows, while Linux is made by amateurs/non paid professionnal and it''s... Linux :p
Speaking of Ultima code, here is a link to the source of an unfinished RPG by one of the guys that wrote Ultima 8. It's at http://www.geocities.com/mind_phuq/ultrpg.zip
Of special interest are the NPC.c and NPC.h files in the GAME sub-directory. It's not finished, but shows how the Ultima guys set their stuff out.
Edited by - morfe on December 11, 2000 5:30:46 AM
Of special interest are the NPC.c and NPC.h files in the GAME sub-directory. It's not finished, but shows how the Ultima guys set their stuff out.
Edited by - morfe on December 11, 2000 5:30:46 AM
Subject : Ultima 7 & 7.5 Schedule StructureAuthor : Byun DongHo (cpascal@soback.kornet.nm.kr)Last Modified : Jul 13, 1996I''m sorry I''m not good at writing in English. I hope you to understand the followings. ===[ Think as Header ]=== Offset Length Description ------ -------- --------------------------------------------------- 00H 4 256 in Ultima 7 & 7.5. NPC num. (Next header item size(byte) is affected by this.) 04H NUM*2 Same as the SUM of each NPC''s schedule amount. (Because NUM is 256 in Ultima 7 & 7.5, the size is 512 bytes in Ultima 7 & 7.5. ) ===[ Think as Body ]=== Each schedule size(byte) is 4 byte. XX XX XX XX | | | +------ SuperChunk Number | | +--------- Y coordinate in the SuperChunk. | +------------ X coordinate in the SuperChunk. +--------------- Schedule number & Match time. You can see the real X, Y location in cheat mode. SuperChunk Number = (Real-Y / 256) * 12 + (Real-X / 256) X = (Real-X % 256) Y = (Real-Y % 256) *. ''%'' is the same keyword as in C. You can get them(SuperChunk Number, X, Y) easily by hex. The followings are about Schedule number & Match time byte. 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 Bit +--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+ | | | | | | | | | +--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+ [============] [======] Schedule num Match time ( 5 bit ) ( 3 bit ) Match time: 000= 0 AM, 100= 0 PM 001= 3 AM, 101= 3 PM 010= 6 AM, 110= 6 PM 011= 9 AM, 111= 9 PM Schedule num: 0= Combat 9= Hound 18= Bake 27= Duel 1= Hor. Pace 10= Stand 19= Sew 28= Preach 2= Ver. Pace 11= Loiter 20= Shy 29= Patrol 3= Talk 12= Wander 21= Lab 30= Desk Work 4= Dance 13= Blacksmith 22= Thief 31= Follow Avt 5= Eat 14= Sleep 23= Waiter 6= Farm 15= Wait 24= Special 7= Tend Shop 16= Major Sit 25= Kid Games 8= Miner 17= Graze 26= Eat at InnAvatar has no schedule. And each NPC must have 1 schedule at least. Surely 8 is max amount for one NPC.
URL? Newsgroup : comp.ai.games
The message was posted by Byun DongHo (cpascal@soback.kornet.nm.kr), but in 1996
NPCs will be inherited from the basic Entity class. They will be fully independent, and carry out their own lives oblivious to the world around them ... that is, until you set them on fire ...
The message was posted by Byun DongHo (cpascal@soback.kornet.nm.kr), but in 1996
NPCs will be inherited from the basic Entity class. They will be fully independent, and carry out their own lives oblivious to the world around them ... that is, until you set them on fire ...
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