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Ten games every designer should play

4: Adsense

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#41 Guimo   Members   


Posted 11 March 2005 - 09:07 AM

Any game now is based in old ideas. For a designer, you should go to the roots.

Starflight I and II for PC - You will only know this game if you are an (old) fan fo space games and played in your 8088. Electronic Arts.
Starcontrol - Yeah... many people still make clones of this one.
Master of Orion I - Space strategy. Liked the Black Hole weapon.
Pirates! - The original Sid Meier game.
Civilization - Sid Meier does it again.
DuneII The Building of a dinasty - The first RTS by Westwood.
Pacman - But I liked MrMunchkin for Oddisey where dots run away from you.
Barbarian - Commodore64 - far before any Street Fighter game.
Racing Destruction Set - Precursor of many race/kill games.
Mechwarrior I - Play on a mech made with 50 polys at most.
Archon - Chess with living pieces. Spanned many games.
Wolfenstein - The first FPS.
Orbiter - First space simulation of a space ship. Very Very technical. You even controlled the arm!

And the game that had em hours and hours playing... if anyone remembers this one he is on my league...
Alley Cat - IBM


#42 BeanNeophyte   Members   


Posted 11 March 2005 - 09:10 AM

I didnt mention

All games by the Bitmap Brothers (Xenon2, God's, ...)

Very unique style Jump,n,Run and action games.

#43 Marmin   Members   


Posted 11 March 2005 - 09:15 AM

Original post by Darkneon
I would add: Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts on the SNES.

That's a real HARD f*cker of a game!! I can't even get past the first screen.

Well this is another 'I like this game best' thread but I would like to add (if anybody actually reads this): Rayman 2 by Ubisoft. My favorite DirectX 3d game of all times, mainly because of the story, game play and level design.

#44 BeanNeophyte   Members   


Posted 11 March 2005 - 09:20 AM

I read it :) Another one:

Gex Enter the Gecko (the 3D version)

Great comic-style-feeling in a 3D game.

#45 CyberSlag5k   Members   


Posted 11 March 2005 - 09:30 AM

Well, with the exception ot the tekken games and counter-strike, this is more of a "top 10 games every turn-based strategy/RPG game devloper should play" list. Not that I'm complaining, you've listed some of my all time favorite games.

Oh, and...


8) Tekken 3, 4 and tag – PS1 and PS2 -The Tekken series is an excellent series of games that does it job very well. It has easy to use controls, intuitive moves, plus a larger variety of different characters, and moves to learn and use. All and all it is well balanced game, with no obvious flaws and is good place to look if you want to see what a well polished game should look like.

I have a serious flaw for you. Fighting (gameplay) is reduced to getting the first hit and juggling your way to victory. I've always liked the Tekken series for its graphics, characters, and story line, but as far as fighting goes these games are simply terrible. You want a real fighting game, play the original Super Smash Brothers (N64). While it doesn't have the amazing character animations and graphics of DOA or the variety and freakin' sweet levels of melee, it is simply an unparalleled experience in the fighting game genre. The game comes down to pure skill.
Without order nothing can exist - without chaos nothing can evolve.

#46 BioMors   Members   


Posted 11 March 2005 - 09:53 AM

Granted I didn't read every post word for word, but I've only seen mention of computer games.

Computer (or console) games are not a league of their own- they have close cousins, and often ones they are more nearly related to than other computer games, in table top and live games. It's important for a designer to have a good grasp on what's out there in the computer world, but if you play one of each category you'll have a fine idea of what they're about- and generally realize how unimpressive most of them are. Clones, replicates, derivatives- almost all of them are- of the classics. There are only a couple game genres quite unique to computers; most notably simulations (like sim city) and to some small extent twitch based games found in the early platformers (sonic, Mario, etc)- though twitch games also derive themselves from real world games like pinball and its predecessors (if sonic spinball isn't obvious enough a throwback to their origins I don't know what is).

Otherwise, there are RPGs- hailing from novels, and the oldest story telling among bored groups of friends. Play some of the original table top RPGs and even look into larping. You'll learn more about the raw mechanics behind the predecessors of all Computer RPGs that way than examining their computerized clones- times have changed quite a bit, and the simplification and mutation that occurred in the transfer from pen and paper to computer needn't be further embraced; re-evaluate the roots of these games, you may be surprised with what you find. Even 'play' some choose your own adventure type books (there are quite a few of them) and experience storytelling in the raw.

And for puzzles, sure, games like Zelda are awesome (IMO among the best computer games there are), but evaluate table top puzzle games too- there are a bunch of really wacky ones out there. The complicated simplicity of these games is incomparable, and often easily integrated into a computer game without exasperating the game rules and frustrating the player.

For strategy, fall back on the oldest strategy games there are- chess, go, checkers- learn how they work, what makes them so fun, and most importantly why they have sustained for hundreds of years.

1&2. simulation (Sim City, and maybe a FPS of some kind)
3&4. twitch based (Sonic, Mario)
5&6. pen and paper RPG (D&D, Shadowrun)
7&8. puzzles (Zelda, Lemmings)
9&10. strategy- (Chess, Go)

That's what I'd say for ten games... Just don't forget the classics.

#47 chad_420   Members   


Posted 11 March 2005 - 10:03 AM

Castlevania : Symphony of the Night.

Came out 2d at a time when 3d was the rage. Still was the best game out for PSX in any genre besides RPG. Engrossing story with good continuity between games (and i believe there 16 of em), combined with the best 'feeling' gameplay make this game a classic in my book. Any game designer should be able to appreciate the immense amount of artwork that went into making that game so immersive. as well as a great soundtrack. Top quality, but those were sony's best years...

#48 kseh   Members   


Posted 11 March 2005 - 11:42 AM


Original post by Oluseyi
Not a single sports game on anyone's list. Interesting.

I don't have a list. I don't care what you have or haven't played; I care a whole lot more what questions you're asking, who you're talking to and what you're trying to do. In fact, I fear that some of this may be harmful because of the calcification that occurs from repeated exposure - overexposure? - to a similar design. For instance, there are dozens of number-crunching, stat-based "RPGs" on various lists, which increases the likelihood that you (the reader of these lists and player of these games) will create yet another number-crunching, stat-based RPG.


There's a much bigger audience out there that clearly hasn't been captivated by any of the games you've mentioned. Why? What do they want? How can we deliver it? Can we deliver it?

Those are the questions I would like to see asked, rather than serving the same answers up again and again.

I would have to disagree somewhat on this. I would care what you have or haven't played. Though questions you're asking & who you're talking to is important, exposure to the media that you're working in is at least equally important. If you wanted to be a writer you would want your readers to get the most out of your work. You do that by learning to write well. You learn to write well by examining the works of other authors. Especially the ones held in high regard.

#49 logain   Members   


Posted 11 March 2005 - 12:19 PM

ummm....no one likes Total Annihilation and everyone likes Starcraft? Pfft... I like both of 'em.

I also liked SMRPG.

And does no one like the Baulder Gate series? I enjoyed those more then Bethseda's games.

And I aint gonna list sports games because I dont enjoy most of the sports in real life so why would I in the game?

Finally, Smash Bros. 2. What's so innovative? Zelda, a female character, isn't gimped or sexed out. Same obviously for Samus. Woah...

Yeah, there was sarcasm there.

#50 jbadams   Senior Staff   


Posted 11 March 2005 - 01:58 PM

Original post by logain
ummm....no one likes Total Annihilation and everyone likes Starcraft? Pfft... I like both of 'em.

And does no one like the Baulder Gate series? I enjoyed those more then Bethseda's games.

I havn't played Total Annihilation, so I can't really make any judgement on it, although I've heard a lot of good things about it, so it's probably something I'll try to pick up a copy of sometime. Any particular features you'd recommend I look out for?

I listed the BG series.

Original post by Oluseyi
Not a single sports game on anyone's list. Interesting.

I don't really like the whole concept of sports games personally - these are things you can attempt in real life - sure, you might not be as good as you could be in a game, but you'll get real benefits in fitness in addition to the fun of playing.

That being said, I'm sure there's some excellent sports games out there, with some very interesting features.

Original post by Oluseyi
There's a much bigger audience out there that clearly hasn't been captivated by any of the games you've mentioned. Why? What do they want? How can we deliver it? Can we deliver it?

Some excellent points there. Some excellent designs could probably be created by starting with absolutely no reference point, finding a single idea, and expanding from there into something with workable gameplay, without trying to fit it into a genre or category, or comparing it to existing games. On the other hand, this could equally as easily produce some very bad games.

Also, an addition to my list:
Pente: A two player boardgame (apparently it can be played with additional players, but I havn't tried this, and aren't sure if there are additional rules). Players take turns placing tokens on the board. Victory conditions are either being the first to get 5 tokens placed in an unbroken straight line (running in any direction including diagonals), or capturing 5 pairs of the other players tokens. Tokens can be captured by placing a token on each side of a pair of the other players tokens, as illustrated here (player one takes a pair of player two's pieces in each diagram):

* = p1 token, @ = p2 token, - = empty space

--*-- ----- ---*-
--@-- ----- --@--
--@-- *@@*- -@---
--*-- ----- *----

Although the rules are very simple, the game is quite challenging, and can require quite a bit of thought, particularly if both players are of roughly equal skill.

- Jason Astle-Adams

#51 Kylotan   Moderators   


Posted 11 March 2005 - 02:05 PM

I find it quite interesting that there are several games here that I really think have serious design flaws (Baldur's Gate, FF7, Tekken 3, Daggerfall). There's something to be learned from most games, even if it's just how not to do something.

#52 Oberon_Command   Members   


Posted 11 March 2005 - 02:14 PM

I agree with StarCraft, and also Zelda 3 (A link to the past). Both are some of my favourite games out there! Quake 3 is also pretty good. It's a good IGame

#53 Deyja   Members   


Posted 11 March 2005 - 02:14 PM

Jedi Knight. I saw it the other day at target, bundled with the expansion, for $10. It was perhaps the best star wars game ever - until KOTOR.

#54 Drastick   Members   


Posted 11 March 2005 - 02:37 PM

My 10 cents (1 cent per game) in no order. There are a million other great games which other people have mentioned but these are ones that stand out in my mind as very unique games.

1) Super Mario 3
2) Super Metroid
3) Beatmania IIDX series (Japanese music game)
4) Zelda 3
5) Metal Gear
6) Myth II (IMHO the best Bungie game ever, yes better than Halo)
7) Halo
8) Half-Life 2 (the first one as well they go hand and hand)
9) Final Fantasy 7 (great system)
10) Pac-Man (much love for the yellow pill popper)

and shameless plug for
11) In The Groove

#55 Hakiko   Members   


Posted 11 March 2005 - 08:59 PM

No order:

1) Super Mario Kart - Most fun I have ever had in two player

2) Legend of Zelda a Link to the Past - First time the world felt deep and real

3) Tetris - This game has amazing staying power

4) Final Fantasy IV (or II depending on how you look at it) - First characters I ever felt attached to.

5) Beyond Good and Evil - From a design stance this game was really different. It had some flaws but in a time of GTA clones it is a risk worth mentioning.

6) Pac-Man - It had one screen and you could get addicted like it was Everquest

7) Ice Hockey - To me this is the greatest sports game ever. It was easy to learn, balanced two player fun. The fat guy, skinny guy, medium guy thing was brilliant for the time.

8) World of Warcraft - A lot more MMORPGs are going to be made. This is the direction to go in for mass market appeal.

9) Castlevania: Symphony of the Night - No reason for 2D to be dead.

10) Street Fighter II - I was never a big fan of fighting games but this one really launched the whole thing.

Not on the list but but no less important.....

Maniac Mansion - Hmmmm run around collecting items to solve puzzles in a creepy mansion with lots of doors. Too the modern example of this doesn't have a sense of humor.( No, "You were almost a Jill sandwich" doesn't count as humor).

Ultima IV - an RPG where your moral choices had an effect. It took us a long time (and millions of random battles) to get back to this.

Sim City - a great example of thinking outside the Hollywood box

Morrowind - All around great. But the thing that sticks out was the caves. I was actually nervous that something was gonna jump out at me.

Not a video game but....

D+D - the old standby

Axis and Allies - more in depth than risk but much easier to play than hardcore wargames

Rubix Cube - a true masterpiece of game design. This and Sim City may be the most inspired game ideas ever

Bubble Wrap - I have seen this turn PhDs in Engineering into 5 year olds

Learn from the mistakes of.....

Night Shift - Bad FMV Bad FMV

Tomb Raider - she looks like a Porsche handles like a UPS truck

Ultima Online - (I do like this game a lot and realize they were breaking new ground) The launch is so important. Is open PvP really what your community wants, or just what you want?

The Challenger - (I am serious here and mean this in the most respectful way, this is a lesson that should not be wasted) There is no better example of the money people having too much sway over the designers and true experts. Integrity of the product whether artistic (music), technical (the space shuttle), or both (video games) is as important as the marketing. If you sell it by advertising and it stinks or does not work it will follow you.

#56 Sean T. McBeth   Members   


Posted 12 March 2005 - 10:32 AM

Original post by Oluseyi
Not a single sports game on anyone's list. Interesting.

Bollocks, I mentioned Tecmo Bowl, Bases Loaded, Blades of Steal, and Gran Turismo (not "Grand Turismo" or "Gran Tourismo") long before you joined the thread.

[Formerly "capn_midnight". See some of my projects. Find me on twitter tumblr G+ Github.]

#57 BoZo -   Members   


Posted 12 March 2005 - 01:15 PM

Where's Ultima VII? :)
It is, without doubt, the best game ever made.

And a game that you should definently check out is ADOM, a rougelike which is in my opinion better than NetHack) www.adom.de

#58 Cipher3D   Members   


Posted 12 March 2005 - 02:13 PM

What about Quake 3? In my opinion one of the best multiplayer FPS out there for just gritty, fast-paced deathmatch action.

#59 deadlydog   Members   


Posted 12 March 2005 - 02:50 PM

Alright, I'm mainly an RPG fan, but here's some of mine:

Final Fantasy 7
Super Mario RPG
Warcraft 2
Super Mario 64
Crono Trigger
Breath of Fire 2
Monkey Island
Tony Hawk - All of em
Zelda - Ocarina of time
Diablo 1 and 2
Mario Kart 64 (double dash wasn't as good)
James Bond 64 - Golden Eye (multiplayer with friends was the funnest)

And 2 of my all time favorites that nobodie's mentioned:
Dragon Warrior 4 - NES
Shining Force 2

Yeah baby!

[Edited by - deadlydog on March 13, 2005 12:50:34 AM]
-Dan- Can't never could do anything | DansKingdom.com | Dynamic Particle System Framework for XNA

#60 DarkBrute   Members   


Posted 12 March 2005 - 05:56 PM

Not exactly all games, but similar to it:

Halo 2
Bungie documentary (the special edition video, shows development at its finest)
Myth 2
Warcraft 3
SW: Republic Commando (AI and squad action rival most other squad games)
Age of Empires 2(or AoM, either way, they are very good games)
Their own (Important to constantly play your game all the time. Gets you in the mood and helps you figure own any bugs or mistakes you might have made. Like a design or story thing.)
Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring (great game, amazing graphics and effects, I actually got scared when confonting the ringwraiths. Then again, I got 360 surround sound stereo.

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