I think all programmers should know machine code...

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74 comments, last by jbadams 12 years, 11 months ago
I won't give a decisive opinion on the subject of this thread because I'm not knowledeable enough, but I would like to dicuss the issue sensibly without all this flaming, and without it being spread over two threads. Why are people flaming this kid in what is a semi-professional environment? Why not just express disagreement and rate his posts down? Surely that would be enough to ensure people take his posts with a (large) pinch of salt?


With the possible exception of my last bit of sarcasm I do not think I have actually flamed him and actively tried to preserve the idea of "reasonable doubt" as long as I could and giving him the possibility to still proof himself.

Anyway, if I'm not mistaken, the general subject is about comparing assembly to high level languages and APIs which, like almost any subject, I think is a reasonable subject to discuss.


A reasonable discussion was attempted at the beginning (with a few isolated incidents). Nevertheless, the progress of the discussion has shown that Andy has neither the ability nor the understanding and just kept adding wrong and twisted looks-like-facts. Whether this is because he is too stupid, too clueless and arrogant or a troll is up to everyone for him/herself. My bet is on troll.

In my experience, adding actual meaningful discussions to a such infested thread is counterproductive as the people who would benefit most from it are the most likely to take in dangerous misinformation spilled by the infestor. If you truly have a desire to deliberate the topic, I would suggest making a new thread in a couple of days when the immediate threat of re-infestation has dropped.
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This thread went out of of scope a long time ago. We should just let it destruct already.



With the possible exception of my last bit of sarcasm I do not think I have actually flamed him and actively tried to preserve the idea of "reasonable doubt" as long as I could and giving him the possibility to still proof himself.

In my experience, adding actual meaningful discussions to a such infested thread is counterproductive as the people who would benefit most from it are the most likely to take in dangerous misinformation spilled by the infestor. If you truly have a desire to deliberate the topic, I would suggest making a new thread in a couple of days when the immediate threat of re-infestation has dropped.


Allright fair enough. I may start one in a couple of days to discuss what I do think is an interesting subject when its calmed down here. But woah does this thread go fast xD It seems to have struck a resonating chord.

BTW, I wasn't accusing anyone in particular of flaming, just commenting on what seemed to me to be lots of flaming going on in the thread in general (which is unsual around here). I didn't mean to take sides or anything. I don't think the OP's approach has been good, but he's either a troll or a kid so meh.
This comment might be off topic a bit... but well, I visit 4chan very often. And this guy was obviously trolling.
But then again, falling for an obvious troll is also a trolling technique in 4chan!
so I don't know who's trolling who anymore. That's it
:lol:

This comment might be off topic a bit... but well, I visit 4chan very often. And this guy was obviously trolling.
But then again, falling for an obvious troll is also a trolling technique in 4chan!
so I don't know who's trolling who anymore. That's it
:lol:


There wasn't really much else to do. First, I was doing something that gave me a few free minutes every now and then. Second, if you let attitudes like just lying around uncommented you risk someone actually believing them to be true, especially if they are new and impressionable. There is actually people around who believe attitudes like he portrayed with similar faulty reasoning. That would not be a problem except sometimes we have to work with people (or their code) like that. And those are usually the times where garbageman sounds like a reasonable career change.


The other option would of course have been for a mod to ban him. But I have seen obvious ad-spam sitting around for half a day after reporting it, so I was not about to put my eggs in that basket.


This comment might be off topic a bit... but well, I visit 4chan very often. And this guy was obviously trolling.
But then again, falling for an obvious troll is also a trolling technique in 4chan!
so I don't know who's trolling who anymore. That's it
:lol:


>4chan

inb4 trolls trolling trolls and image macros
First of all, take 100 lines: "using less memory does not make your program faster or more efficient".

There are plenty of real world cases where using more memory is orders of magnitude faster. You might want to cache objects or calculation results for faster retrieval, you might want to align memory or use format sizes that are more appropriate for your platform or architecture.

Secondly, take another 100 lines: "modern operating systems do not allow programs to directly access the hardware".

This is as true of assembly language as it is of any higher level language. You may think you're doing so, but you're not. The kernel and/or HAL is performing the direct hardware access through the driver, you are not. You are not accessing actual physical memory, you are not accessing the actual physical disk, you are not accessing anything physical. That layer is still there and your program cannot bypass it.

Oddly enough, I agree with you in the sense that a programmer should definitely know something of what's going on behind the scenes; that way you can tune your program to work more efficiently with the way things really are. But language considerations are largely irrelevant with respect to that. You may think you're more 'ardkore for writing a program in assembly, but prepare to have the rug pulled from under your feet when C and a compiler wallop it for performance. (Just like C# and .NET can wallop C for performance under the right circumstances).

Direct3D has need of instancing, but we do not. We have plenty of glVertexAttrib calls.

I'm closing this topic -- if anyone wants to seriously discuss the subject matter at hand you may start a new topic to do so.

- Jason Astle-Adams

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