I actually share the idea that a perfect game is the one that doesn't require content updates from developers to keep being interesting. To that end I came up with a few thoughts on the matter. A game becomes boring after awhile if it doesn't have new content. If developers aren't the ones adding the content, then players should be the ones to do it. The player's motivation however is radically different from the developer's. The player wants to enjoy the time spent with a game, developer wants players to play the game and earn money from that. So either the players have to become developers themselves or the game has to offer the kind of gameplay that allows the players to enjoy creating content in the same way they enjoy playing a game. The first approach is the one chosen by the creators of Second Life. The second approach is the one chosen by the creator of Minecraft. However neither of these products are actual games where people enjoy playing together in a PvE fashion. Surely there are times where you would enjoy fending off zombies with your peers but that kind of gameplay gets old fast. What's more interesting is competing with your peers, and that is the essence of PvP.

So to recap, you need:
1. Content generated by players
2. PvP

Unless of course you can somehow make a system that would generate new content on its own in an evolutionary fashion, adding new locations on the map, new monsters and everything else, without the designers doing so much as lifting a finger. I don't think that's possible yet though. Maybe in 50 years time.

I actually already came to those conclusions already in OP and a second post in this thread.

Content created by players = Terraforming, building houses (towns, communities). And MODs for their own servers.
Sadly none of those options would fit into my game..

I actually already came to those conclusions already in OP and a second post in this thread.

Content created by players = Terraforming, building houses (towns, communities). And MODs for their own servers.
Sadly none of those options would fit into my game..

Hmm ok, well what about, custom weapons/items crafted specially by your guild/clan members? Customisable flags and skins?

I don't know what the context and setting is for your game but what I'm trying to get at is anything the players or team players can create or experience together, adding meaning and substance to the whole social factor.

Although I'm not sure how this links in with PvE so I'm not sure what I'm talking about here lol.

Hmm ok, well what about, custom weapons/items crafted specially by your guild/clan members? Customisable flags and skins?

Custom weapons/items..
Sounds complicated.. How would you go about a crafting system like that?
Do you know any game that has a system like that? Would like some examples.

Custom flags is possible but would by hard to control what players do..
They could draw penises and nazi signs or spell out words that should be filtered.
Also doesn't sound like a main PvE feature.. Sounds more like a small bonus feature.
I don't think players would keep playing your game to make flags at least.

But I'm interested to hear more about custom weapons and items.

[quote name='Sayid Ahmed' timestamp='1332595660' post='4924872']
Hmm ok, well what about, custom weapons/items crafted specially by your guild/clan members? Customisable flags and skins?

Custom weapons/items..
Sounds complicated.. How would you go about a crafting system like that?
Do you know any game that has a system like that? Would like some examples.

Custom flags is possible but would by hard to control what players do..
They could draw penises and nazi signs or spell out words that should be filtered.
Also doesn't sound like a main PvE feature.. Sounds more like a small bonus feature.
I don't think players would keep playing your game to make flags at least.

But I'm interested to hear more about custom weapons and items.
[/quote]

I believe one of the sandbox PvP MMORPGs did that, whether it was Wurm or Darkfall or Mortal, I'm not sure.

I'm really just talking conceptually here, but maybe a game where players can create the blueprints for a weapon using some sort of modular system. So someone can design a sword to have armour piercing capability, fire damage, increased length etc, but the more modular bonuses they add on the more it costs or the higher rate of failure etc. Either that, or they customise the look of weapons and armour, like selecting a series of blades or hilts or handles for their sword, do they want shoulder pads on their armour, a robe to go over their armour? The latter would probably be quite difficult to make though, unless it's a 2D or isometric game.

I don't know exactly what you want or need for your game, of course, I'm just theorising - and digressing from your original question a bit.

I think my point is just try to be creative and think of a way to give people incentive to keep playing your game.

I actually already came to those conclusions already in OP and a second post in this thread.

But did you realize that this was the only way unless you actually want to start researching how to procedurally create new monsters, locations etc.? The latter is an interesting problem space to research, but it won't bear fruits any time soon, so it's no good for a commercial project.

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Custom weapons/items..

[/font][/quote]
That is also part of player generated content. And there are other things that a player could generate. For example how about theme parks and casinos? This is why I used Minecraft and Second Life as examples.

[quote name='glhf' timestamp='1332594180' post='4924869']
I actually already came to those conclusions already in OP and a second post in this thread.

But did you realize that this was the only way unless you actually want to start researching how to procedurally create new monsters, locations etc.? The latter is an interesting problem space to research, but it won't bear fruits any time soon, so it's no good for a commercial project.
[/quote]

That's a naive statement imo.
How do you know it's the only way?
It's possible you are right but like I said it's naive to think that without at least asking/brainstorming with other game designers on the biggest game dev forum.

I'm not looking for just 1 other persons thoughts, I'm looking for everyones.
Besides player created content is a big subject that can be branched into many categories..
Just letting the discussion end at "player created content" would be a shame because that's just the beginning.

[quote name='glhf' timestamp='1332596552' post='4924881']
[quote name='Sayid Ahmed' timestamp='1332595660' post='4924872']
Hmm ok, well what about, custom weapons/items crafted specially by your guild/clan members? Customisable flags and skins?

Custom weapons/items..
Sounds complicated.. How would you go about a crafting system like that?
Do you know any game that has a system like that? Would like some examples.

Custom flags is possible but would by hard to control what players do..
They could draw penises and nazi signs or spell out words that should be filtered.
Also doesn't sound like a main PvE feature.. Sounds more like a small bonus feature.
I don't think players would keep playing your game to make flags at least.

But I'm interested to hear more about custom weapons and items.
[/quote]

I believe one of the sandbox PvP MMORPGs did that, whether it was Wurm or Darkfall or Mortal, I'm not sure.

I'm really just talking conceptually here, but maybe a game where players can create the blueprints for a weapon using some sort of modular system. So someone can design a sword to have armour piercing capability, fire damage, increased length etc, but the more modular bonuses they add on the more it costs or the higher rate of failure etc. Either that, or they customise the look of weapons and armour, like selecting a series of blades or hilts or handles for their sword, do they want shoulder pads on their armour, a robe to go over their armour? The latter would probably be quite difficult to make though, unless it's a 2D or isometric game.

I don't know exactly what you want or need for your game, of course, I'm just theorising - and digressing from your original question a bit.
[/quote]

Modular system for stats on weapon should be pretty simple to implement.
And for making different types of handles, blades, lengths etc.. Actually I think DFO did have that.. or maybe it was MO.. Think it was MO.

It's a good feature tbh and not too complex to implement.
It's a shame MO was so bugged and still is with a terrible release and pretty bad marketing.
Because now we can't really know how effective that crafting system is since they advertised the game for PvPers who don't care about PvE features.

Modular system for stats on weapon should be pretty simple to implement.
And for making different types of handles, blades, lengths etc.. Actually I think DFO did have that.. or maybe it was MO.. Think it was MO.

It's a good feature tbh and not too complex to implement.
It's a shame MO was so bugged and still is with a terrible release and pretty bad marketing.
Because now we can't really know how effective that crafting system is since they advertised the game for PvPers who don't care about PvE features.

Yeah that's the problem with these games, they're too underfunded and a good example of how great concepts don't mean much when they're not implemented properly. Though I don't know much about Wurm.

To be fair, MO is getting a massive update/expansion soon.

I'd prefer to play a PvP heavy game but that doesn't mean a very good PvE module can't exist as well. I believe that MMO games should be driven competition and co-operation; PvP endorses the former, good PvE endorses the latter. Only my opinion though.