$5 ### Image of the Day Submit IOTD | Top Screenshots ### The latest, straight to your Inbox. Subscribe to GameDev.net's newsletters to receive the latest updates and exclusive content. Sign up now ## Torque 3d! is it worth the time and money for an MMO? Old topic! Guest, the last post of this topic is over 60 days old and at this point you may not reply in this topic. If you wish to continue this conversation start a new topic. 31 replies to this topic ### #21Dwarf King Members Posted 24 August 2012 - 01:24 PM Is this a troll post? It seems like a troll post. What do you mean? Could you be more specific? Badly worded post, only two people, MMO, knows nothing about programming? Seems like the stereotypical GameDev troll post. Or inexperience and need your help. I do agree that two people is really not enough and that no experience is really not a good start. The best way is to let them try to work on some programming and play around with a demo engine first(they are free). After a while they will get the idea about how much work it takes. Of course taking a course in programming first would be the best approach. I just give people a chance before I draw the card Also they seem okay to me. Interested and curious. "The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education" Albert Einstein "It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education" Albert Einstein ### #22AlexBlin Members Posted 24 August 2012 - 11:24 PM Hi, I do 3d modeling with 3ds Max an autodesk program. I have a lot of experience using it if you need help doing 3d models or anything let me know, to make the game in 2 years it all depends on how large the game is and what you want to include into it. ### #23chris3d165 Members Posted 26 August 2012 - 08:02 PM Hey guys What Should The Polygon limit be for the meshes in a single map combined all together for the average user's pc ? ### #24MichaelT Members Posted 27 August 2012 - 04:32 AM Don't! If you have no experience go with UDK or CryEngine 3. Both are free to use while developing. Plenty of help to find as well as lot's of books and tutorials. Not to mention they are the best engines on the planet (with the exception of ID5 but that is not an option for you (yet)). So my suggestion would be to look at these sites: http://mycryengine.com http://www.unrealengine.com/udk Granted, it's not MMO out of the box, but my suggestion to you here is that you get a small multiplay game running, with let's say 16 people (believe me it's not easy) and make your gameplay work (also not easy). Once you have some experience under the belt, move on up the ladder. Crawl before walk, and walk before running grasshopper ;) Good luck. P.s Don't worry about polycount at this stage (it's mostly free these days on decent machines) you are going to have more problems with shaders and things like that. Go wild, and look into the places where the performance hurts No no no no! ### #256677 Members Posted 27 August 2012 - 06:26 AM Polygon limits a tricky one, you've got to consider the number of enemies on screen etc aswell as the polygons on the map itself. For outdoor non urban environments I've seen 1 meter or larger grids being used without seeming to be too low poly, there are then techniques to smooth those poly's into something less jagged closer to the player, this can then be scaled dependant on hardware. The GTA3 era games I believe used a grid roughly 2 meters in size with a few sections done higher or lower even, they were obvious as low-ish poly but it shows what you might be able to get away with. PLay some older games. PS2 era maybe and have a look at the poly counts used there, any modern machine will be able to beat them so you should be able to aim a little higher and still have a game capable of running on average hardware. ### #26timothyjlaird Members Posted 27 August 2012 - 05:27 PM The problem with making an MMO (and other modern 3d games) is not so much the programming as all the damn artwork you need. I don't understand why you would penny-pinch on an engine ($100 or $200 for the license) when you need to spend >$3000 for tools to make professional artwork (3D Studio Max or Maya and Photoshop). Sure, you may be able to do it in Blender...good luck with that on the scale you would need for an MMO...

Edited by timothyjlaird, 27 August 2012 - 05:28 PM.

### #27chris3d165  Members

Posted 27 August 2012 - 05:37 PM

hey guys i just though it would be a good idea to say im not spending a dime for tools. For my upcoming projects im going to be using blender as for 2d image editing im using gimp and here comes torque for 180 which is the only expense at the moment .i can use 3ds max alot better than blender and Photoshop just as much as gimp but those industry standard tools are at my school and i only have a student license with max so yea im not about to go find even \$4k for the main 3d app max because as a student with a part time job thats not going to be happening but thankfully theres blender so yea now lets see just so i can know where im headed what do you guys think is are some of the most major things MMO's miss out? im not going to make one for now as we all established its quit the task but as time goes by ill find a better team so how about it?can you guys list a few things you all hate in mmo's and what you'd love to see more of or have in the game at all im sure this is going to be useful for a ton of other devs too thank you hope to hear your great replies soon.

### #28chris3d165  Members

Posted 27 August 2012 - 05:44 PM

Theres another thing to clear up what size should i make the texture maps for the UVS and such ? I usually go with 1024x maps and they really don't go as far as id like so id like to know how often can i use per say 2k maps ,whats your take on that, guys remember im asking this in terms of performance for the average users pc ? i mean the only pc i have atm is the asus g73sw bt6 best buy version USA,which has 8gigs ddr3 memory, i7 2nd gen 2 ghz up to 3 ghz when needed and a 460m nvidia gpu so im kinda stuck figuring out what would run fast or slow on an average pc and honestly i dont even know what average is anymore so this is why this is another important question thanks hope to see more replies ahead .

### #296677  Members

Posted 28 August 2012 - 03:00 AM

It is hard to define the avaerage PC, especially with different demographics. Most of the people on the minecraft server I play on when asked have 2 to 3 ghz dual core, 2 to 4gb of RAM and universally all have integrated GPU's, infact its only 5 or 6 of us that do have dedicated GPU's (on a server with many many more players than that). But most of the players there are all in school playing on cheap laptops. The few with dedicated GPUs (including myself) are no longer in school and are either working or at uni or similar. I know a large amount of people who seem to think buying a netbook is an awesome idea and use that as their only computer. That will usually be 1.3ghz dual core, 1.6 single or 1.6 dual as the most common setups I see, usually complemented by 1gb ram, I occasionally see 2gb. Never seen one with a dedicated GPU before (unsurprisingly).
You should ask friends, see what machines they run and so on. My machine: 3.5ghz AMD athlon 2 triple core, 4gb dual channel DDR3 RAM @1333Mhz and a GTX460 1gb 336 core at 823Mhz. This is a desktop not a laptop

### #30timothyjlaird  Members

Posted 29 August 2012 - 04:52 PM

Theres another thing to clear up what size should i make the texture maps for the UVS and such ? I usually go with 1024x maps and they really don't go as far as id like so id like to know how often can i use per say 2k maps ,whats your take on that, guys remember im asking this in terms of performance for the average users pc ? i mean the only pc i have atm is the asus g73sw bt6 best buy version USA,which has 8gigs ddr3 memory, i7 2nd gen 2 ghz up to 3 ghz when needed and a 460m nvidia gpu so im kinda stuck figuring out what would run fast or slow on an average pc and honestly i dont even know what average is anymore so this is why this is another important question thanks hope to see more replies ahead .

Check the Steam hardware survey for what gamers are using...
http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/
You can use the "reach" (which means crappy hardware) and "hidef" (high performance hardware) profiles as a guide even if you are not using XNA. See here for a comparison on "reach" and "hi-def":
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff604995%28v=xnagamestudio.40%29.aspx
I would also make a decision ahead of time as to what shader profile or model you are going to target as a minimum for your users....because that effectively decides whether you can use geometry shaders, whether you can sample textures in your vertex shaders, etc.

### #31krippy2k8  Members

Posted 30 August 2012 - 01:29 AM

I have used Torque3D for a long time, been a big proponent of GarageGames for many years... but honestly, unless your programmer has a great deal of experience and doesn't mind spending a lot of time fixing the engine that you're paying for, I would stay away from Torque3D right now. It has a great deal of potential, has an excellent rendering engine, and you can do a lot with it since the source code is included in the low price point, but it is a highly broken engine at this point and it really doesn't look like it's going to be fixed any time soon. As a relative beginner there will be no end to the frustrations you will face with this engine.

Since you have experience with Unity, I would probably stick with that. You don't get the source code, but (almost) everything works out of the box, and it's a lot friendlier to beginners than Torque.

### #326677  Members

Posted 30 August 2012 - 07:18 AM

The only problem with the steam hardware surveys is that it doesn't reflect the average PC overall, only the average PC for games, this is absolutely fine though seeming as your developing a game. In reality intel graphics I would think would have a larger market share than 11.4%, more like 30 to 40 possibly higher and I know about 5 people who actually have 5gb of ram or more (which is supposedly the most common on steam). It does show nicely that single core systems are increasingly rare although for now don't bother with multicore programming, its alot harder and introduces alot of complexities that you might not want to deal with yet, you may be able to take advantage of it in future.

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