Intro and a few questions

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16 comments, last by GeoFruck 11 years, 6 months ago
Hehe, thanks for the further comments, glad to see that the reputation of programmer's humor is well-founded. I will take a look at the Visual Studio Express as well, I mainly skipped that because I first saw MS and thought money.....pass. Now that I know there is a free version, that's worth the download at least.

@Conker, I've been doing various parts of the design part for about 2 months. The thing that I initially started with is the store recipes. This led me to level progression, which led me back to store recipe rewards for xp, which led me to.....needless to say, I have become intimately familiar with the spiral development model. At least on the scale of designing such interacting game mechanics.

What I ended up with, after all of this, are the base logorithmic formulas for deriving the resource cost, gp rewards, and xp rewards over time. I want my game to be somewhat customizable by the player, so I came up with 3 different sets, one for a balanced store, one for higher gp/lower xp rewards, and one for higher xp/lower gp rewards. I wanted to come up with formuals, because they will theoretically stay useful throughout the entire span of the main level progression. I also devised a level progression, which is based on the standard exponential level progression, probably started with D&D, but with a slight varient. Every 10 levels, instead of doubling the needed xp requirements, I will quadruple it. In order to offset this, I will simplay apply a bonus of 1.85 -1.95 to the base store values, at that same level. This should seem fairly seamless to casual players, but serious gamers who are trying to squeeze every last gp and xp out of their town will see a noticeable difference, and have to restructure their city in order to continue to see their streamlined city design working. I basically wanted to put something in to prevent anyone from breaking the game....at least to a great degree. I also decided to come up with a level-in-level progression, which consists of 25 levels spanned over the same xp requirements of the first 10 levels. I call the set of 25 "age" levels, and the original 10 "city" levels. The city levels will introduce new buildings, such as resource collectors, stores, houses, etc., and the age level will introduce new decorations, both funtional (affecting building stats) and non-functional (just looking pretty), as well as building enhancements. This will serve the purpose of allowing a lot of flexibility and fine tuning with the adding of decorations/enhancements. It will also continue to provide a sense of accomplishement and progression for the player. The resource production rate is somewhat dependent on getting a working model going, in order to see how the progression goes, but I do have intro values for those as well.

That is really what got me started on this project. I simply love math, and love to use it to make things easier. It's probably child's play to a lot of people around here, but I've always loved making really complicated spreadsheets for city planning in games, such as Utopia. http://utopia-game.com/
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A tip -- Get a student licensce for autodesk. You can make everything up, and just say you're a "mentor". They don't check the applications and it gives you free access to all their future applications. As long as this game isn't for profit, you can use all the latest AUTOCAD, MAYA, and 3DS MAX software you like. I personally prefer blender because 3dsmax is way for resource intensive, but if you have a good enough computer I'm pretty sure 3ds max is great, especailly for in 3d-Editor testing.

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Thank you for adding to the conversation, superman. That is a good tip to be aware of for sure. I do want to launch this game as a commercial endeavor, but if I have to continue to rely solely on myself for the actual fabrication of the game, I will need any and all free and user-friendly tools to choose from. I guess a pertinent thing to add to this, at this point, is what my intent is with this game. I intend to launch this game as a mobile app, in order to hopefully quell the stream of low-quality games being introduced and fed to the masses. I see the mobile gaming market as a new frontier right now, as many do, but I don't want to take advantage of people who don't know any better, I want to introduce them to what a true and rewarding game experience can be. I believe that with this intent, as long as it is implemented carefully, I can draw many more "casual" players closer to the real gaming world. A huge goal, to be sure, but one I feel passionate about and worth pursuit.

Edit: Also, to add to the previous discussion with Conker, I have also been networking among the steampunk community for writers and artists, because this will be one of the main themes for the game. A good storyline is imperative, imho, for a good game, and an artist, well, makes art. In these digital days, a picture or a painting is just as good as graphics design, to some extent.
Hi, GeoFruck

Some similarities exist around your viewpoint and mine in early August. It had been a long time since I studied some languages, I wanted something easier within my newbie abilities, and I am a graphics artist ( Though I am semi-professional after more than two years putting content in games.).

The best this newbie found for my goals came to C# and Python, though there are a few other commonly used languages which are a bit on the easier side to learn as well. I am a Blender user, so that must stay. For large, complex models I do the 3D and usually their textures with Wings 3D. Given these, I know how to get a model with its file format into a game - directly, by exporter, or by converter, most of them free.

The natural question is this: How can a newbie who wants to focus on the art aspects for the time being make a very nice game? Blender is actually a suite of applications which is quite powerful, flexible, and down the road is also programmable, including the game engine which you know. Moving on, the C# based games are popular and have technical support, so good for learners and professionals alike. The C++ games are numerous and much support there, too. Several other languages are not uncommon. There are game systems which help the game designer or game developer (there is a distinction in the two) with official and third party plug-ins, tools, software development kits (SDK), and even integrated development environments (IDE), a bunch mentioned in this thread.

I decided to focus on C#, keep Blender, and look for low cost or free alternatives like you are doing. My focus is on Axiom 3D render engine - a C# port from Ogre 3D, so you could look into it for the sake of one stone turned in your search.

Another possibility: The Ogre 3D and MOgre popular engines have very active community, wonderful collection of plugins such as sound, physics, and so forth, and you can use any of the major 3D model programs via an exporter to bring 3D and 2D content into your game. Ogre 3D website has a section for exporters to use Blender, Milkshake 3D, and so on to import 3D models into Ogre 3D, including animations. The render engine has the extensibility to whatever you want, little or much programming, so the experience levels supported suit most people. Take a look! smile.png

If you do not settle on a specific render engine, game engine, or kit, then you need ability to make games more generally, example such as C# and XNA or C++ and a game engine with software development kit (SDK). Unity 3D is a C# based one with tools and much support in other ways.

Integrated Development Environments (IDE) are some things to examin, such as Blender (if not an IDE, close to being one), MonoDevelop, and Visual Studio. I would recommend for most beginners to start with one Framework (such as .NET or Tao), one lower level API (OpenGL, DirectX, or other). There are a lot of higher level graphics APIs like JMonkey(Java), Irrlicht(C++ - already mentioned), and Ogre(C++). Some of the engines handle most if not all of the API and memory management issues for the developer, which sounds like an important consideration for you, like many beginners.

Some of the games, game engines, render engines, and kits will offer both preferred technologies and a lot of alternatives to any of the above mentioned.

Conclusion:
1) Choose a system for game design or game development with flexibility and community.
2) Keep it simple for your first few games.
3) Begin learning your language to support your plan right away! Books are best for most people, going page by page through the exercises and information.
4) Any of the more common and well supported languages will do just fine, but the system around it might be more important such as game engine, SDK, IDE, and community support.
5) Pick a journey which will have you seeing continual learning progress and visible achievements in making games.
6) Keep having fun! smile.png

Clinton

Personal life and your private thoughts always effect your career. Research is the intellectual backbone of game development and the first order. Version Control is crucial for full management of applications and software. The better the workflow pipeline, then the greater the potential output for a quality game. Completing projects is the last but finest order.

by Clinton, 3Ddreamer

Well, no offended, but I don't reccomend the ogre3d route. It has a lot of problems with rendering -> It was essentially written by some people who tried to fix everything from directs / opengl, and although they fixed some of that stuff, pretty much everything else is just really badly coded or doesn't exist at all. It's you're choice, though if you don't know much programming and you're looking for an engine, you can really only use open-source, thus, I recommend Blended for your engine. (Although you can do whatever you want.)

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Here's my Custom IDE / Debugger Programmed in Pure Python and Designed from the Ground Up for Programming Education!

Want to ask about Python, Flask, wxPython, Pygame, C++, HTML5, CSS3, Javascript, jQuery, C++, Vimscript, SFML 1.6 / 2.0, or anything else? Recruiting for a game development team and need a passionate programmer? Just want to talk about programming? Email me here:

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I recommend Autodesk Maya over 3DS. Maya is, imho, superior software. It's much more intuitive and has much better designed interfaces. You can do complex things in Maya at astounding speed. I'm not that great of a 3D modeler but I have a friend who is a true expert; he learned it over several years of college courses. He can spit out complex models with outlandish speed and accuracy. The same operation in 3DS Max can be slow and clunky at best. The movie industry is way ahead of the game industry in that regard, as they embraced Maya years ago. For some reason, many game dev studios are still clutching to 3DS Max because it's the "traditional" thing and they teach Max in a lot of game dev courses for artists in colleges. The first time you open up Maya it can be daunting. There are hundreds and hundreds of buttons and gizmos. But over time you will learn what each of them are and what they do. And when you get to that point you will really appreciate how great and intuitive the software is. It's just layed out in a way that is conducive to high quality work at high speeds, with less fumbling around with menus and UI elements. And there's simply no comparing Blender to Maya.
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Well, no offended, but I don't reccomend the ogre3d route. It has a lot of problems with rendering -> It was essentially written by some people who tried to fix everything from directs / opengl, and although they fixed some of that stuff, pretty much everything else is just really badly coded or doesn't exist at all. It's you're choice, though if you don't know much programming and you're looking for an engine, you can really only use open-source, thus, I recommend Blended for your engine. (Although you can do whatever you want.)


That's okay. I rarely see anybody write that Ogre3D is badly coded, though that might be true. There has been some nice games made with it. Most of the community over there enjoy it, no doubt having a lot to do with the plug-ins and add-ons which solve much of the coding issues.

We agree with the Blender recommendation, since GeoFruck wants to take advantage of his artistic head start and maybe slip gradually into scripting.

Thanks for the opposite viewpoint, superman.


Clinton

Personal life and your private thoughts always effect your career. Research is the intellectual backbone of game development and the first order. Version Control is crucial for full management of applications and software. The better the workflow pipeline, then the greater the potential output for a quality game. Completing projects is the last but finest order.

by Clinton, 3Ddreamer

Hehe, didn't mean to start anything here. I really just wanted to do what I posted in the topic. For my current purposes, learning how to program does not fit into my timeline. I want to get this game to market as quickly as possible, while maintaining high quality. I have come here to ask how I can do this myself, which I believe has been covered.

I have also come here to eventually seek people interested in working with me on this project, which is why I posted the second point. I believe that the answer to that, as it relates to this community, is that a fairly thorough GDD, some pictures of the UI, the main screen, buildings, the game mechanics that I posted above, and all of the other ideas that I want to incorporate should do the trick to not only show that I am serious, but give a programmer the necessary information in order to start throwing things in an engine. I mean, a lot of people in this community could probably do this. But, I am currently not planning on this level of involvement, because I can't until it happens. In order to continue to move forward and make my vision happen, I have to keep working with what I can understand or pick up within a week or so.

Again, I do appreciate everybody who has come to add to this discussion, but I thought it appropriate at this point, to reiterate my OP.

Now let's all just have a group hug :D

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