Fleshing+Polishing my fighting system

Chosker · 2012-10-18T15:52:21

hey everyone, been a while since I've posted here. Love how there's now a 'MMO' topic prefix anyway on to my post. I work on a 3D Action RPG in my spare time, [here's] a gameplay video of it so far, yes it's too fast and messy but you get the idea. The game is thought of as a 3rd person game but 1st person is also included (to please players' preference). It's a single-player game, but thought of as if AI players were human players (ie. they're not lesser unarmed monsters, they have the same moves as human players), and even as a PvP multiplayer game (future feature). I'm a regular at the UDK forums and a few days ago someone (who I sometimes even talk to on skype) posted his WIP thread, and while his game was purely action, the fighting system idea was similar to what I have/want (basically a slightly different + improved version of Mount & Blade's). I asked what his ideas for improvement were but he wasn't up for the design discussion, and I was left wanting to discuss it. So basically I have something similar to Mount & Blade's melee and ranged combat. Mine is slightly faster but still without becoming confusing (at least that's what Im trying to). Blocking is just like M&B's automatic blocking mode (ie. you don't have to direct your parries, just time them right). Improvements on my end including the ability to use a roll move as a dodge, and using A+click / S+click / D+click (only if you're standing still, doesn't work if you're already moving) to do a left / backward / right attack, to make up a little for the fact that regular attacks are always aimed to the front which limits multi-enemy combat very much. For those (few) not familiar with Mount&Blade's combat, you can choose one attack of 4 possible ones: left-to-right slash, right-to-left slash, up-to-down slash, and forward thrust. this is done by moving your camera-controlling mouse to the left/right/up/down and then clicking the mouse button. might sound a little dizzy-involving but after 3 minutes of getting used to it, it works quite good. I've also thought about using combos but I'm not sure it fits with the whole "I control the direction of the attack" concept. Other games like Skyrim, Prince of Persia or Assassin's Creed base their combat attacks in combos which, while they encourage a click-bashing experience and no strategy, keep things a little interesting visually (except for maybe PoP: warrior within whose combo choices in theory make you think of strategy, though it is itself discussable because in the end using one combo instead of another would cause very little difference strategic-wise). So how would you tie in combo features in a M&B-like control-attack-direction system? would you at all? My proposed idea: after an attack, tie-in the best next attack choice in a better way, and to impose a penalty for the worst next attack choice. For example: say you do a sword slashing attack from right to left. the best next attack (based on body/arm/hand flow logic) would be to do another slashing attack, this time from left to right. the worst next attack would be to do the same right-to-left slashing attack again because it'd require the body+arm to re-position again at the right side to start the attack. doing an up-to-down attack or a thrust would cause no penalty, or mean any advantage. so penalty, advantage? well the penalty for choosing the worst next attack choice would be that the attack would take much longer to get executed, while the advantage for choosing the best next attack would be a much faster next attack, maybe with a different attack animation to keep things visually interesting. all of this would need to be explained to the player by the "tutorial trainer guy" in-game I've also thought about a 'Dark Messiah'-like push/stun kick (which I think was later introduced in M&B, but I can't be sure) and other 'Dark Messiah'-like situational moves, and maybe a hold-click power attack. I'm here to discuss though, so I'm ready to hear what you guys have to say

Game Design and Theory Game Design

Started by Chosker September 27, 2012 02:32 PM

11 comments, last by Bluefirehawk 11 years, 6 months ago

Chosker

601

Author

October 17, 2012 05:10 PM

I meant that after a counter attack that failed, that missed for whatever reason, you generally have an area of your body unguarded. When a skillful player then attacks this region with a normal attack he gets some attack bonus (damage/critical hit/whatever). That was my idea, I may have described it misleading.

I see what you mean now.
I've thought this a little more through and I'll just implement some sort of "body balance" mechanic: failed regular attacks (swings at air), failed counterattacks, attacks that are parried/blocked offensively and defensively, received impacts; all those (and any other I might think of) will all cause different "off-balance" animations + ministuns (that will last less or more depending on the case), and will temporarily alter an internal float var that will serve as a multiplier for incoming damage while they last (again here, less or more depending on the case).
the idea is to make alterations in body balance affect both damage and movement, as well as their visual representations.

Actually, I think this is one solid cool idea. I heard of a Samurai Apprentice, his master sent him to do normal housework stuff (get water, clean up, cook). The master often ambushed his unarmed apprentice until he learned to defend himself with everything he had. So I think it is cool, funny, and has a lot of potential.

glad you like it, now I'm yet to see if it ends up feeling fluid and not awkward when implemented.

These are some general suggestions:

Managing your endurance is very important in fighting. If you like an endurance system, it is an easy way to add depth and thought in your fights.

I already have an endurance system. every action reduces the player's stamina from a regenerating stamina bar. for now I have it set up so that if the stamina bar is empty you can't do those actions anymore (sprint, attack, jump, block, etc - but can still move), and stamina will renegerate at different rates if standing, walking or running. I plan on improving it though, not by making such actions impossible to do, but by making them much slower and reducing body balance much further if stamina is low/depleted.

If you swing into the void, it takes more time to get back in your base position, it is also more exhausting.

I heard that swordfighters (without shields) try to deflect the enemy's blows.

taken note of swinging into the void.
as for deflecting enemy's blows, that's what I've been referring to as "parry" all along. unless you're talking about something else entirely.

Your stance is your life, it is highly desirable for you to weaken your enemy's stand. Lowkicks f*cking hurt, after a few well placed ones, you can't walk anymore, you are unable to fight. Seriously, they hurt like hell.

If you are out to kill your enemy, a quick kick against the knee may render the enemy unable to stand, and to fight.

note taken.

Distance is king

it is indeed. my system is already very dependant on distance. hit detection is made using multiple points along the weapon blade, so the closer you are = more blade points hit = more damage dealt.

thanks for your suggestions there

Chosker - Developer of Elium - Prison Escape

IanW

123

October 17, 2012 10:30 PM

"as for deflecting enemy's blows, that's what I've been referring to as "parry" all along. unless you're talking about something else entirely."

Theres a big practical difference between a static block, and deflecting a sword ... generally blocks are done with the front/true/long edge, and deflections are done with the false/short/back edge. An incoming sword with just be stopped, or maybe bounce a little bit, when reversed by a block. But if you deflect it with the false edge, it goes off and down to the side. Oh. Is that a massive hole I can counter-attack through ? Yes, yes it is. Well, then

Id suggest that the toon blocks automatically, but only does a fancy back-edge deflection when told to.

"In a regular attack you do the swing with your arm which gets impulsed by the rest of your body's movement, right? well a power attack just involves much more impulse movement from the torso and legs (and therefore a stronger hit). the problem is that after the attack you can't go back to a stance/defensive position nearly as easily because the same extra impulse has already thrown you off your balance (ie. you're probably either near the floor or you did a 180º turn and are now looking the other way)." Yes. Thats exactly how it works. A little back-edge cut aimed at the wrist and powered from the wrist is still a cut, and your feet are still positioned to defend you (usually by GTFO-ing in the appropriate direction). But a cut where the feet are committed to the attack - for example, by powering a cut with a hip flick or a sidestep - is far more powerful.

"I plan on improving it though, not by making such actions impossible to do, but by making them much slower and reducing body balance much further if stamina is low/depleted." There are few more frustrating things in a fight than the eye seeing a hole the exhausted arm cant hit through.

"counter-counter-attack? uhmm interesting. I think that doesn't sound possible: for a counter-attack you're required to block/parry the attack first, and if you add up the quickness of the first counter-attack to the mini-stun the first block/parry caused, I don't think there will be time at all for him to recover and be able to parry. yes I could code that time, after all it's my own system, but wouldn't that make counter-attacks just plain slow?" Heck yeah thats possible. Feint from just outside distance without committing the feet, draw the stop-thrust and then launch the counter attack down another line, committing the feet with a diagonal step to make it the real attack while simultaneously evading their stop-thrust.

Bluefirehawk

1,233

October 18, 2012 03:52 PM

it is indeed. my system is already very dependant on distance. hit detection is made using multiple points along the weapon blade, so the closer you are = more blade points hit = more damage dealt.

That's the bad thing with not having enough time. This is cool and part of it what I wanted to write. Yet I am still in a hurry so I write this as fast as I can:
Distance can work both ways.
The best example is the badr hari vs semmy schilt fight in 2009:

Hari is far the smaller guy, if Schilt manages to keep him at distance, he has little to no chance landing a hit while being under constant pressure. So he marches in, Schilt is a very good distance fighter but he couldn't keep him at distance.
If you have a long sword, it can also mean your doom if the enemy knows how. But it is generally the harder strategy.
I also wanted to write more, but time is up, see ya!

Project: Project
Setting fire to these damn cows one entry at a time!

Fleshing+Polishing my fighting system

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Fleshing+Polishing my fighting system

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