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Posted 12 October 2012 - 05:51 PM
Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:05 AM
Please do, I would love to have a look at this new technology, particularly if it uses cryptography (which is seldom used in current DRM for good reason) since that's one of my fields of interest.
I'm not sure if it makes sense to post all technical details on how it works.
“If I understand the standard right it is legal and safe to do this but the resulting value could be anything.”
Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:38 AM
Posted 13 October 2012 - 08:04 AM
Posted 13 October 2012 - 08:17 AM
Posted 13 October 2012 - 08:37 AM
Posted 13 October 2012 - 08:46 AM
@ATC: In your opinion, you feel like Steam overdoes security?
I haven't had any problem DRM-wise with them (the constant patching can get annoying though).
Posted 13 October 2012 - 08:50 AM
One possible solution would be to move your game logic onto the server and use the client only as display/renderer..
Everything else is hackable.
If you e.g decide to use a server for authentification, one could #1 (as atc stated) change the authentification codeblock in your executable, #2 change the server data so that it connects to a custom server, .... use your imagination
Authentificating on a server would be a cake by using asymmetric encryption:
the key you have produces encrypted (login) data that can only be decrypted by the server and vice versa...
Hacking this is also possible but that should not be your concern since it would require setting up keyloggers and thats the user's fault.
Posted 13 October 2012 - 12:31 PM
Posted 13 October 2012 - 01:05 PM
Posted 13 October 2012 - 01:26 PM
Yes and no. They could do that (and they will do, I'm sure) but they soon realize the points are not same even for the same binary. I.e. not only the location (position) in the code but also the type / used instructions differ. And remember, they don't have the clean (unprotected) copy to compare to. It's very similar to having one message ciphered with two different keys. Can you tell from the differences what was the original? Even if it's only partially ciphered?
If only the crypto points are scrambled: Couldn't a group of crackers each pool their executables, and then compare the executables to find the crypto points which could then be removed?
Yes it would and that's the reason why our tool makes possible to mark parts of the code (either by absolute offset ranges or by function names). So yes, there is a way.
If the entire binary is scrambled: Wouldn't this effect the performance of carefully balanced tight inner loops? Is there a way to specify, for performance-sensitive areas of code, not to scramble that portion?
Just for installation/activation. I should've phrased it more carefully: we know how many users already activated it, for what hardware and with what serial number so publisher can see how many copies are 'around'.
Does your method require an internet connection for ever playing session, or just for install/activation? If only for activation, how do you detect concurrent users?
Posted 13 October 2012 - 02:00 PM
Edited by ATC, 13 October 2012 - 02:05 PM.
Posted 13 October 2012 - 02:40 PM
That's the reason why I'm saying: A: First, we do not claim it's unbreakable. We are only saying we can hold your game long enough on the game market to make some money back. In other words: you'll crack us, we work on it with that in mind, but it will take you a time.
Your system sounds pretty good. I can give it my blessings insofar as what I've heard you say about it. But don't think all (or any part of) it is "uncrackable". You might have made it hard enough that I don't feel like trying, but anything is breakable. When you engineer the "unbreakable" lock I will just get a screwdriver and take the door off the hinges... the mighty lock falling at my feet as I enter the bank vault. That's how hacking is done and how crackers think. :-)
You know, I'm not a marketing advisor. Nor a sales person. We just offer a technology which shoots down the 95% piracy rate. If it helps your business or not, we can't tell, you know who your customer are. The decision is up to you, of course.
However, I still take issue with the claim that this will "increase revenues"... I say again that people who refuse to pay for your software are not going to pay for your software.
I agree that the only way you're going to increase revenues is by writing excellent games and software but imagine these excellent games and software get cracked the day they are released.
wait until someone else figures out how to do; which usually doesn't take very long. The only way you're going to increase revenues is by writing excellent games and software. That's what compels people to buy; not DRM or security.
Sure, in an ideal world. I don't know if you're a game developer or not but don't you feel pissed off if you are working on a game/app for months, eating just fast food all the time to save money, then offer your product for $2 with cool support and features and some asshole makes a crack and spread it for free? Are you really satisfied only with the feeling that people use it? For big companies it is the same -- they have 200+ people working on a title, put 3 years of development into it and the next day after release a crack is out there, making their work worthless.
"Anti-cracking" measures and security should be about keeping things fair. It's not fair to paying customers if everyone and his uncle gets to play for free. And that's really, imho, the only reason to have any DRM/security measures in your game. The way to discourage people from cracking your software is by pricing it fairly, offering good customer service, treating your customers with respect and making your games accessible to the public.
Wow, this must be a huge coincidence, but we'll write them for sure!
P.S. -- Your security scheme sounds very familiar. It sounds a lot like the security system built into GROME (my favorite terrain/world editing tool) from Quad Software. I notice your company is called "Quadisys" which sounds similar to "Quad"... Are you guys an offshoot of Quad or related in any way? If so, please send Adrian my regards. He has helped me greatly over the years! ;-)
Edited by mikro_sk, 13 October 2012 - 02:46 PM.
Posted 14 October 2012 - 10:27 AM
Posted 14 October 2012 - 12:52 PM