so I allow them to[/quote]
LOL... you'll ALLOW me to do something?
This is why I haven't played any commercial PC games in over 7 years now.
Is software piracy a problem for you?
Author
Very good questions!
Yes and no. They could do that (and they will do, I'm sure) but they soon realize the points are not same even for the same binary. I.e. not only the location (position) in the code but also the type / used instructions differ. And remember, they don't have the clean (unprotected) copy to compare to. It's very similar to having one message ciphered with two different keys. Can you tell from the differences what was the original? Even if it's only partially ciphered?
If only the crypto points are scrambled: Couldn't a group of crackers each pool their executables, and then compare the executables to find the crypto points which could then be removed?
Yes and no. They could do that (and they will do, I'm sure) but they soon realize the points are not same even for the same binary. I.e. not only the location (position) in the code but also the type / used instructions differ. And remember, they don't have the clean (unprotected) copy to compare to. It's very similar to having one message ciphered with two different keys. Can you tell from the differences what was the original? Even if it's only partially ciphered?
If the entire binary is scrambled: Wouldn't this effect the performance of carefully balanced tight inner loops? Is there a way to specify, for performance-sensitive areas of code, not to scramble that portion?[/quote]
Yes it would and that's the reason why our tool makes possible to mark parts of the code (either by absolute offset ranges or by function names). So yes, there is a way.
Does your method require an internet connection for ever playing session, or just for install/activation? If only for activation, how do you detect concurrent users?[/quote]
Just for installation/activation. I should've phrased it more carefully: we know how many users already activated it, for what hardware and with what serial number so publisher can see how many copies are 'around'.
Your system sounds pretty good. I can give it my blessings insofar as what I've heard you say about it. But don't think all (or any part of) it is "uncrackable". You might have made it hard enough that I don't feel like trying, but anything is breakable. When you engineer the "unbreakable" lock I will just get a screwdriver and take the door off the hinges... the mighty lock falling at my feet as I enter the bank vault. That's how hacking is done and how crackers think. :-)
However, I still take issue with the claim that this will "increase revenues"... I say again that people who refuse to pay for your software are not going to pay for your software. Thinking otherwise is being completely unrealistic and/or naive. No one thinks "Gee, I like that game. Let me go online and try to get a cracked version. If I can't then I'll go to Gamestop and buy it." Their thoughts either go one way or the other: "I'm going to Gamestop to buy that game," or "I'm going to crack that game and play for free." I'm sure there are a few people who might go and buy it after failing to crack it, but those people probably don't count for 1 in 1000 buyers. People who are determined enough not to pay that they will crack your game and use it illegally are just going to keep trying to crack it or just wait until someone else figures out how to do; which usually doesn't take very long. The only way you're going to increase revenues is by writing excellent games and software. That's what compels people to buy; not DRM or security.
"Anti-cracking" measures and security should be about keeping things fair. It's not fair to paying customers if everyone and his uncle gets to play for free. And that's really, imho, the only reason to have any DRM/security measures in your game. The way to discourage people from cracking your software is by pricing it fairly, offering good customer service, treating your customers with respect and making your games accessible to the public.
Regards,
--ATC--
P.S. -- Your security scheme sounds very familiar. It sounds a lot like the security system built into GROME (my favorite terrain/world editing tool) from Quad Software. I notice your company is called "Quadisys" which sounds similar to "Quad"... Are you guys an offshoot of Quad or related in any way? If so, please send Adrian my regards. He has helped me greatly over the years! ;-)
However, I still take issue with the claim that this will "increase revenues"... I say again that people who refuse to pay for your software are not going to pay for your software. Thinking otherwise is being completely unrealistic and/or naive. No one thinks "Gee, I like that game. Let me go online and try to get a cracked version. If I can't then I'll go to Gamestop and buy it." Their thoughts either go one way or the other: "I'm going to Gamestop to buy that game," or "I'm going to crack that game and play for free." I'm sure there are a few people who might go and buy it after failing to crack it, but those people probably don't count for 1 in 1000 buyers. People who are determined enough not to pay that they will crack your game and use it illegally are just going to keep trying to crack it or just wait until someone else figures out how to do; which usually doesn't take very long. The only way you're going to increase revenues is by writing excellent games and software. That's what compels people to buy; not DRM or security.
"Anti-cracking" measures and security should be about keeping things fair. It's not fair to paying customers if everyone and his uncle gets to play for free. And that's really, imho, the only reason to have any DRM/security measures in your game. The way to discourage people from cracking your software is by pricing it fairly, offering good customer service, treating your customers with respect and making your games accessible to the public.
Regards,
--ATC--
P.S. -- Your security scheme sounds very familiar. It sounds a lot like the security system built into GROME (my favorite terrain/world editing tool) from Quad Software. I notice your company is called "Quadisys" which sounds similar to "Quad"... Are you guys an offshoot of Quad or related in any way? If so, please send Adrian my regards. He has helped me greatly over the years! ;-)
Author
Hi ATC,
That's the reason why I'm saying: A: First, we do not claim it's unbreakable. We are only saying we can hold your game long enough on the game market to make some money back. In other words: you'll crack us, we work on it with that in mind, but it will take you a time.
Your system sounds pretty good. I can give it my blessings insofar as what I've heard you say about it. But don't think all (or any part of) it is "uncrackable". You might have made it hard enough that I don't feel like trying, but anything is breakable. When you engineer the "unbreakable" lock I will just get a screwdriver and take the door off the hinges... the mighty lock falling at my feet as I enter the bank vault. That's how hacking is done and how crackers think. :-)
That's the reason why I'm saying: A: First, we do not claim it's unbreakable. We are only saying we can hold your game long enough on the game market to make some money back. In other words: you'll crack us, we work on it with that in mind, but it will take you a time.
However, I still take issue with the claim that this will "increase revenues"... I say again that people who refuse to pay for your software are not going to pay for your software.[/quote]
You know, I'm not a marketing advisor. Nor a sales person. We just offer a technology which shoots down the 95% piracy rate. If it helps your business or not, we can't tell, you know who your customer are. The decision is up to you, of course.
wait until someone else figures out how to do; which usually doesn't take very long. The only way you're going to increase revenues is by writing excellent games and software. That's what compels people to buy; not DRM or security.[/quote]
I agree that the only way you're going to increase revenues is by writing excellent games and software but imagine these excellent games and software get cracked the day they are released.
"Anti-cracking" measures and security should be about keeping things fair. It's not fair to paying customers if everyone and his uncle gets to play for free. And that's really, imho, the only reason to have any DRM/security measures in your game. The way to discourage people from cracking your software is by pricing it fairly, offering good customer service, treating your customers with respect and making your games accessible to the public.[/quote]
Sure, in an ideal world. I don't know if you're a game developer or not but don't you feel pissed off if you are working on a game/app for months, eating just fast food all the time to save money, then offer your product for $2 with cool support and features and some asshole makes a crack and spread it for free? Are you really satisfied only with the feeling that people use it? For big companies it is the same -- they have 200+ people working on a title, put 3 years of development into it and the next day after release a crack is out there, making their work worthless.
P.S. -- Your security scheme sounds very familiar. It sounds a lot like the security system built into GROME (my favorite terrain/world editing tool) from Quad Software. I notice your company is called "Quadisys" which sounds similar to "Quad"... Are you guys an offshoot of Quad or related in any way? If so, please send Adrian my regards. He has helped me greatly over the years! ;-)[/quote]
Wow, this must be a huge coincidence, but we'll write them for sure!
I only repeat our offer here: if you think a good anti-piracy solution with as little hassle as possible can help you boost your sales, give us a call. If not, well... we can't really force you to change your mind, it's up to you. We offer it 100% for free, servers are paid by us, customers support ditto. We really need a 'real' customer to break into the game world.
@ mikro_sk:
I'm sorry if it came off like I was disparaging your product/services. I did not intend it that way, and I know you weren't claiming your security is "unbreakable". I was just talking about the issue of piracy and security in general. I think the anti-piracy and DRM effort of the software industry (especially the giants) has gone too far. Like I said though, your product sounds very clever and, from what I've heard, I would trust it. It sounds like a reasonable level of security for a broad range of games and other software.
Yes, it does piss you off to see your work pirated. And, possibly worse, it pisses off paying customers that they paid for the product and lots of other people are using it for free. That's the main reason I concern myself with licensing/security, for the sake of fairness to my team and my customers. I know that it's not going to make me richer to stop game/software pirates (the term "pirates" makes them sound too cool, imho lol) but I do it for the people who worked so hard on the software and the people who spent their money to buy it. That's reason enough to use a product like yours. I may even consider it in the future (in fact, I'll save your contact info).
I would suggest, however, businessman to businessman, not to put forth the claim that using your security will increase revenues. Your clients could be sorely disappointed when they see a decreased piracy rate but revenues remain at or near the same level. Some might even blame you, even though that's not your fault. I'm not sure about the legal implications of this but I'd be afraid someone might sue me for "false advertising" or deceptive marketing; promising someone that they'll make more money by using your product could be a legal minefield. I'm in the investment finance business and I can get into trouble if I promise a client an X% return in Y-time and fail to deliver; so we're not allowed to make such promises. I'm not sure how that (legally) applies to you but it just scares me. That's why I made an issue of it. :-)
Regards,
--ATC--
P.S. :: Yes, I am a game & software developer.
I'm sorry if it came off like I was disparaging your product/services. I did not intend it that way, and I know you weren't claiming your security is "unbreakable". I was just talking about the issue of piracy and security in general. I think the anti-piracy and DRM effort of the software industry (especially the giants) has gone too far. Like I said though, your product sounds very clever and, from what I've heard, I would trust it. It sounds like a reasonable level of security for a broad range of games and other software.
Yes, it does piss you off to see your work pirated. And, possibly worse, it pisses off paying customers that they paid for the product and lots of other people are using it for free. That's the main reason I concern myself with licensing/security, for the sake of fairness to my team and my customers. I know that it's not going to make me richer to stop game/software pirates (the term "pirates" makes them sound too cool, imho lol) but I do it for the people who worked so hard on the software and the people who spent their money to buy it. That's reason enough to use a product like yours. I may even consider it in the future (in fact, I'll save your contact info).
I would suggest, however, businessman to businessman, not to put forth the claim that using your security will increase revenues. Your clients could be sorely disappointed when they see a decreased piracy rate but revenues remain at or near the same level. Some might even blame you, even though that's not your fault. I'm not sure about the legal implications of this but I'd be afraid someone might sue me for "false advertising" or deceptive marketing; promising someone that they'll make more money by using your product could be a legal minefield. I'm in the investment finance business and I can get into trouble if I promise a client an X% return in Y-time and fail to deliver; so we're not allowed to make such promises. I'm not sure how that (legally) applies to you but it just scares me. That's why I made an issue of it. :-)
Regards,
--ATC--
P.S. :: Yes, I am a game & software developer.
Author
That's very interesting point with the legal implications, ATC. We'll keep that in mind. And of course, you're cordially welcome to use our technology even in the future!
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