Thanks guys ! This site is nuts, it's like taking all of the good posters from other forums and consolidating them into one place! I seen a lot of great responses and I'd like to reply:


Regarding elements:

Do you believe that later down the line this will get old? Now I know this is impossible to really answer, as until we can time travel(imagine the games we'd have then!) we'll never know. But an estimated guess is just a good (not really). Are YOU getting tired of the formula? I'm torn, I kinda still love it. For example, the kingdoms in Legend of Zela:Ocarina of Time, I loved that implementation. It made sense, felt great, and it wasn't confined to only those aspects - there was a lot more to the story.

Regarding hit points:

I wasn't really thinking in a human context, in a very abstract kind of way. Take an entity with humanoid features (limbs, walk stride, etc), make it very simple. Maybe just the body and a few organs. Could a damage system apply more than a hit point system? I haven't given the concept much thought and I'd love to hear from you guys what you think. I personally don't think I'd try reinventing the wheel because frankly, and as you pointed out, the hit point system DOES work. I wondered if another system DID work and Dwarf Fortress was a great suggestion! Though, I do think Dwarf Fortress would be unplayable if it ran those situations in a 3D environment with animation and high quality graphics.


New subject - Technology:

Do you think that any idea can be implemented with today's technology? I think you can, if you have the drive. That, of course, there would be compromise but as a whole technology is a small hindrance to our ideas. However, I may be biased, because obviously no one that wants to make games wants their ideas to be impossible.

I thought heavily about games that use damage over health and I just remembered two!

Bushido Blade, an old game where swords had lethality and if you got hit in the legs, you'd lose use of the one hit and if you lost an arm the same would happen. Of course, getting hit in the face or torso was death. This is an old game, mind you, and it worked very well!

The second is Overgrowth. This game is new, I haven't really had extensive testing with it so that's why it didn't immediately come to mind. It has a grappling/martial arts type combat that is branched from enemy or player actions - much like the batman games except there is no indicator for a pending attack. Death seems to result from a trauma system in which enough force to any part of the body smashes the skeleton. When using swords it's generally instant death, it DOES use a system of using the edge map on weapony to create entry wounds that bleed directly from the target(standard 2D blood drip animation).

Both games make it work, but I do feel both are bare boned. Also, this has not yet been done in a grand scale. Bushido blade was a 1v1 fighting style game, Overgrowth is in alpha and fighting more than one opponent is death. So again, it seems like a high lethality system is hard to apply when there is more than one opponent. My main problem is I have a high doubt that it'd really work on an online level, too. I'd wonder how latency would factor in, with this kind of combat the gameplay must be VERY smooth.

I hope you guys check both of those games out, if you have access to a PS2, then definitely pop in bushido blade. It's a cult-hit kinda game, you can find it on ebay or in the brick and motor game stores Oldies bins. Overgrowth is developed by wolfire studios, all the new builds are on youtube.

edit: Sunandshadow, I think the above does agree with your points. Neither are "exploration" games and I feel they may fall apart when taken out of the "fighting game" context. While Overgrowth has a lot of parkour, it is in the dosage of levels and in a dynamic game world I don't think this would hold up well.

I've been trying to work out a new way of dealing with damage and hit points and its been a challenge. What i envisioned was a fluctuating scale based on player performance per encounter. Basically, you start at the middle of this scale, as you play well (hit the enemy, avoid an attack, use a skill) you move towards the positive end of the scale. If you play poorly (get hit, miss an attack, poorly timed dodge) you move towards the negative end. You "die" when you hit the absolute negative and you get a "kill" when you hit the absolute on the positive. This basically eliminates enemy hit points all together and is completely based on player performance. I'm not sold on this being a good idea though and constantly go back and forth between this system and a hit point system. What I am doing now is using the scale as a "special meter" (unlocks better skills as you go positive. Lose access to skills as you go negative) and a traditional hit point system. I would LOVE to combine them but I'm not sure it would equate to a good experience for the player.

Forgive me, but this seems more like an organic hit point system than a replacement for one(though I don't know if you even ARE complaining to replace it). Also, it seems fights MAY drag on for an extended period, I could see players getting frustrated when an enemy gets a quick shot in and then they have to make two MORE shots to gain the kill, during which the enemy might hit you again. I like the idea of losing access to skills a lot, that's brilliant. I have no idea to the context of your game, however, so my critique is nowhere near accurate .

it seems fights MAY drag on for an extended period

This is the main reason I decided to use a traditional health meter along with the fluctuating scale. Fights could in theory go on indefinitely. Much of the idea is based on the THQ series of wrestling games for the N64. (World Tour and Revenge) In those games no characters had hit points. They had special meters and when they were full, they could execute a finisher (which basically ended the match.) I like the idea of unlocking a powerful move to end a fight after good player performance.

My current skill meter is similar to ones you see in some fighting games. As it fills you hit different levels and each level offers new skills. If the meter decreases, you lose access to those skills until you fill the meter back up again.

[quote name='jdturner11' timestamp='1355490735' post='5010593']
it seems fights MAY drag on for an extended period

This is the main reason I decided to use a traditional health meter along with the fluctuating scale. Fights could in theory go on indefinitely. Much of the idea is based on the THQ series of wrestling games for the N64. (World Tour and Revenge) In those games no characters had hit points. They had special meters and when they were full, they could execute a finisher (which basically ended the match.) I like the idea of unlocking a powerful move to end a fight after good player performance.

My current skill meter is similar to ones you see in some fighting games. As it fills you hit different levels and each level offers new skills. If the meter decreases, you lose access to those skills until you fill the meter back up again.
[/quote]

Do you have any screenshots of your game? I'm really interested in seeing what you made!

On the subject of elements, I'd like to see something using the Wu Xing. Aside from novelty, the added element can change up gameplay so things are a little less straight-forward.

With Earth, Fire, Water, and Wind you have against each element a superior, inferior, and neutral element. With the Wu Xing you have a superior, inferior, and two neutral elements. This'd give the player more options to consider when attacking and the designer more options for enemy and environment placement as there are more options for the player and therefore more ways the progression of the game can deviate from the standard of each element overcoming the next.
Themed environments of Wood, Fire, Earth, Metal, and Water would also change things up while still being relatable.

[quote name='jdturner11' timestamp='1355490735' post='5010593']
it seems fights MAY drag on for an extended period

This is the main reason I decided to use a traditional health meter along with the fluctuating scale. Fights could in theory go on indefinitely. Much of the idea is based on the THQ series of wrestling games for the N64. (World Tour and Revenge) In those games no characters had hit points. They had special meters and when they were full, they could execute a finisher (which basically ended the match.) I like the idea of unlocking a powerful move to end a fight after good player performance.

My current skill meter is similar to ones you see in some fighting games. As it fills you hit different levels and each level offers new skills. If the meter decreases, you lose access to those skills until you fill the meter back up again.
[/quote]

My brother and I just got Playstation All Stars. There are no hit points. As you do successful attacks, you gain AP, which fills up a meter. Environmental hazards or certain items can cause you to lose AP and drop it in the form of a ball that friends or foes can pick up. When you fill a bar, you get a special attack. There are 3 levels. One might be a lunge forward, the next might be a few seconds on a cannon, and the third typically kills everybody instantly or turns you into a super powerful character for about 20 seconds with huge range attacks. All of these levels kill instantly if successful and that is the only way to kill an enemy.

The Super Smash Bros. series had additive damage rather than subtractive. Every time you're hit, you gain a small percentage. Attacks will knock you back a short ways, sometimes through the air. As this percentage goes up, these attacks will knock you back further. At a certain point (around 150%), it becomes fairly easy to use a powerful attack to fling you off of the sides of the map -- how a kill is scored. At extreme levels (250% and above) even a regular attack can send you off the sides, or failing that, send you up into the air high enough to activate an animation of flying out of the arena into the horizon and dying.

However, these were both fighting games.

Good reference, smash bros. Is a classic. Arma ll is a game with a wound system as well.

However, these were both fighting games.

I'm actually trying to incorporate fighting game concepts into an RPG. The game is based on sword-fighting and encounters are set up as duels (you only ever fight one person at a time.)

Do you have any screenshots of your game? I'm really interested in seeing what you made!

I don't have any screenshots yet. Haven't spend too much time on appearances yet, mostly just coding. Once I have something to show, I'll definitely start a thread with screenshots and some gameplay.

[quote name='dakota.potts' timestamp='1355724557' post='5011556']
However, these were both fighting games.

I'm actually trying to incorporate fighting game concepts into an RPG. The game is based on sword-fighting and encounters are set up as duels (you only ever fight one person at a time.)

Do you have any screenshots of your game? I'm really interested in seeing what you made!

I don't have any screenshots yet. Haven't spend too much time on appearances yet, mostly just coding. Once I have something to show, I'll definitely start a thread with screenshots and some gameplay.
[/quote]

Encounters like Soul Calibur dungeon mode/Pokemon/FF where you're goin' along and then the screen transitions to a traditional 1v1 fighting screen or like a 3rd person open world with only duels as combat?