$30 ### Image of the Day Submit IOTD | Top Screenshots ### The latest, straight to your Inbox. Subscribe to GameDev.net's newsletters to receive the latest updates and exclusive content. Sign up now ## How easy is it to collaborate on a game remotely? Old topic! Guest, the last post of this topic is over 60 days old and at this point you may not reply in this topic. If you wish to continue this conversation start a new topic. 22 replies to this topic ### #1awgm Members Posted 27 December 2012 - 12:47 PM I am learning C, so this question is somewhat future-thinking, but how easy would it be to design and create a game strictly on the web, with other people around the country/world? Is this even possible? Thanks in advance. ### #2Paradigm Shifter Members Posted 27 December 2012 - 01:10 PM Well, NetHack was written via collaboration on usenet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetHack "Most people think, great God will come from the sky, take away everything, and make everybody feel high" - Bob Marley ### #3awgm Members Posted 27 December 2012 - 01:18 PM Well, NetHack was written via collaboration on usenet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetHack Thanks, that's interesting. ### #4EddieV223 Members Posted 27 December 2012 - 02:14 PM You should check out microsofts new team foundation server, its really good now, and free for up to 5 developers http://tfs.visualstudio.com/en-us/ Edited by EddieV223, 27 December 2012 - 02:17 PM. If this post or signature was helpful and/or constructive please give rep. // C++ Video tutorials http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo60USYV9Ik // Easy to learn 2D Game Library c++ SFML2.2 Download http://www.sfml-dev.org/download.php SFML2.2 Tutorials http://www.sfml-dev.org/tutorials/2.2/ // Excellent 2d physics library Box2D http://box2d.org/about/ // SFML 2 book http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1849696845/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1849696845&linkCode=as2&tag=gamer2creator-20 ### #5Khatharr Members Posted 27 December 2012 - 02:34 PM Totally depends on the people involved. If you all get along with one another and are all willing to work to completion then it can definitely be done. I used to cooperate to script new behaviors for RMXP with some hombres from a fan site. MSN messenger was enough to keep us all on the same page, but we were good friends and the scripts were pretty simple. It's usually easier to communicate technical concepts on a computer than it is verbally, though it helps to throw in a bit of MS Paint and voice chat from time to time. void hurrrrrrrr() {__asm sub [ebp+4],5;} There are ten kinds of people in this world: those who understand binary and those who don't. ### #6Tom Sloper Moderators Posted 27 December 2012 - 02:52 PM how easy would it be to design and create a game strictly on the web [collaborate on a game remotely?] NOTHING is easy. Developing a collaborative game is easier than building a working orbital launch vehicle, but not as easy as winning the lottery (winning the lottery is pretty easy on the face of it - all you have to do is buy a ticket; the only hard thing is that you have to be extremely lucky). Why even ask "how easy" something is to do, or "how hard" it is to do? What's the point? -- Tom Sloper Sloperama Productions Making games fun and getting them done. www.sloperama.com Please do not PM me. My email address is easy to find, but note that I do not give private advice. ### #7awgm Members Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:01 PM Maybe "easy" was the wrong word... I just wanted to know if it had been done successfully before and any pitfalls that go along with it. Thanks ### #8proanim Members Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:09 PM You should have asked how hard it is to collaborate on the web. Well if you can get a team or just a few people to work with you and can menage to get something other than email for comuncation like free forums or such, than collaboration will persist as long as there is motivation. ### #9EddieV223 Members Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:21 PM You should have asked how hard it is to collaborate on the web. Well if you can get a team or just a few people to work with you and can menage to get something other than email for comuncation like free forums or such, than collaboration will persist as long as there is motivation. Agreed the hardest part is finding people who say they will work on it, and actually do what they say. I've started several projects over the net with people I only know from the net. All of those projects died because people stop showing up to work on it. I even joined a project some one else started, a few days later he wasn't heard from for 2 months. Edited by EddieV223, 27 December 2012 - 03:23 PM. If this post or signature was helpful and/or constructive please give rep. // C++ Video tutorials http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo60USYV9Ik // Easy to learn 2D Game Library c++ SFML2.2 Download http://www.sfml-dev.org/download.php SFML2.2 Tutorials http://www.sfml-dev.org/tutorials/2.2/ // Excellent 2d physics library Box2D http://box2d.org/about/ // SFML 2 book http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1849696845/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1849696845&linkCode=as2&tag=gamer2creator-20 ### #10Tom Sloper Moderators Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:39 PM Maybe "easy" was the wrong word... I just wanted to know if it had been done successfully before and any pitfalls that go along with it. Thanks Those are MUCH better questions. 1. Yes, it has. 2. Read a lot of the posts in the Business And Law forum (since collaborative projects are usually business endeavors). -- Tom Sloper Sloperama Productions Making games fun and getting them done. www.sloperama.com Please do not PM me. My email address is easy to find, but note that I do not give private advice. ### #11nesseggman Members Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:38 PM I have not worked on a game collaboration, but I have worked on other collaborative projects (comics, anime fansub, etc.) online. The success is, of course, determined by the least productive member. If you have a member who simply will not do their job, you can't finish your project. Because your main method of communication is the internet, someone can suddenly "disappear" and you'll have no idea if they're coming back or not. Even though I know your question was for the future, here are some things I suggest: * Set up a forum for your collaboration. * Get MANY contact info from the members. Have them give you a phone number and have everyone involved trust giving out their phone number. People are more likely to at least respond if they're going to bail if you have their phone number. * Don't collaborate with someone you wouldn't trust giving your own phone number to. Collaborations require trustworthy people anyway. * If you're leading the project, give report deadlines... like everyone MUST report their progress twice a week (on specific days, by specific times). * If you use messengers regularly, try to get everyone to actively keep their messengers on and talk to each other casually. Always ask how the project is coming along and talk about your personal progress. People will work harder if they feel everyone else is working hard, plus they will not want to say "I have done nothing" every time. In the end, I think it's best to collaborate with people you know, rather than strangers, but it's very possible to collaborate with strangers and complete big projects. Think of anime fansub groups who have oftentimes a separate person do each of these things: * Rip or find "raw" episodes. * Typesetting * Translation * Quality Checking (usually several people do this) * Video editing, etc. * Publishing/distributing/webhosting/whatever Usually this kind of collaboration would have at least 5-6 people working on it (though some groups "combine" talents and only have a couple people, but still) and they can do like... 200 episodes of some long series and complete their project So it is very possible. ### #12GameCreator Members Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:02 PM One very specific example of group failure is Hero6. They were around for many years but they never finished their game, despite people's best intentions. They accepted members from all over the place and they all lost interest over time. ### #13Servant of the Lord Members Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:34 PM One very successful example is Black Mesa. They were around for many years, but through shrewd management and perseverance managed to finally release their game after over six years (seven?) of development. I didn't personally enjoy the result because it wasn't 'Valve quality', it was still a very impressive accomplishment. Here is a interview with the person who became the manager of the project, and the problems and some solutions they came up with. It's perfectly fine to abbreviate my username to 'Servant' or 'SotL' rather than copy+pasting it all the time. All glory be to the Man at the right hand... On David's throne the King will reign, and the Government will rest upon His shoulders. All the earth will see the salvation of God. Of Stranger Flames - ### #14MrDaaark Members Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:54 PM Maybe "easy" was the wrong word... I just wanted to know if it had been done successfully before and any pitfalls that go along with it. Thanks It's really no different than collaborating with people who are sitting right besides you. It's a people thing, not a technology thing. Anything like DropBox, or some kind of source control will solve the technical aspect. I've done this three times. I joined an FPS project here on the forums as a mapper. It was a disaster, because no one on the team knew anything. I couldn't get simple answers for overall scale, player sizes, heights, and other misc data, so I couldn't map anything for them. Everyone had a different idea of what they were doing. That was about a decade ago now, and I'm sure they still haven't done anything. I joined a modding project for NWN and it was more of the same. One guy making decisions that had no clue what the engine was even capable of. Another guy liked to script, but solved every problem by writing long, error prone, overly complex algorithms. So I ditched them all, took the one guy on the team worth a damn, and we started our own. This project worked well. I did the scripting and some of the content, the other guy did most of the content, and guy number 3 had the server. We were always on MSN messenger and communicated constantly. I had txt files that detailed exactly how all my modded code worked, and how the content needed to be created to work with it. The only setbacks we had were patches that changed functionality, and me having to redesign around it. So you need someone in charge who knows what they are doing. You need everyone on the team to be good at whatever is it they will be doing, and self motivated. Everyone needs to have all the information on how everything will work and fit together. Everyone needs to know exactly what they are responsible for, and what is expected of them. ### #15DARSC0D3 Members Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:50 AM I would say that your question is to generic and by-far not relevant for you at this point in time. If you are still learning c I would not go out and start thinking about things that might happen somewhere far out in the future. Sure it is always good to think a couple steps ahead, but this is more like a few journeys that you still have ahead of you before even start thinking about things like this. It is simple fact that focus will bring you far more result when undertaking something as learning how to develop games. Best what you could do if you are willing to think so far ahead is to make sure you at least have the necessary skills set. That will give you some insight about the basic ins en outs of the process involved that you are trying to collaborate on. Without that any project is doomed to fail even before it starts. IMO this question is wasted of time for you and for people on this form trying help you out. Any answer that you will get will probably raise more questions and than answers. The missing of a foundation makes it even harder to understand what every body in this thread is talking about. The best advice I could give to you is stick with what you are trying to learn, keep thinking few steps ahead but not years unless your skills and experience allow you to. Make a few games on your own before even start thinking to work with other people. There are not many teams that are willing to take on apprentices as they make chance of actually finishing a product very small. Armed with the knowledge of the basic principles that are involved in making games and one or more skills that could be valuable to actually work with a team on a collaborative game project you would be able to ask much better question. You might be even able to answer this question for your self for the largest part. ### #16JonathanJ1990 Members Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:36 AM i'm curious do you mean this more in a software sense or a manpower sense / as far as establishing a repository somewhere and giving access to several individuals to work on the project that is extremely easy and as long as you have around$100 somewhere you should be able to establish a cheap and accessible setup to all your team members. As far as completing a project , making sure it's done on time, ensuring that everyone is on the right page and maintains the same version as often as possible ? well that's an entirely different story and based on the experience, communication skills, and  team dynamics of your team .  It is a very vague question and yes it is possible  ( I work in calfornia with  a programmer in argentina daily).  However viewing a few other responses it seems like maybe you are putting the carriage before the horse a little . If you don't have the resources or ability to make a game yet then trying to plan out how to establish an extensive network for yourself and multiple developers to work on a game is pleasant info sure but considering how complicated something can get and how quickly it can get complicated i would make sure that you had a solid foundation on how to develop games by yourself .

Edited by JonathanJ1990, 28 December 2012 - 09:38 AM.

### #17Dan Violet Sagmiller  Members

Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:49 AM

Something that helps is the way you run your project.  I recommend using Agile, trying to get a vertical slice done every two weeks.  This means that instead of writing out the whole database, you only write out two of the tables.  Instead of writing out a large scale player management architecture, you outline what it should be, and only do the minimal you need to get the game to show a player on the screen.

Here is a major benefit of how it helps with a freelance team:

1) if no one sees any changes (I.e. your programmers are working on the perfect database layout for 2 months) no one really knows anything is happening.

- Players don't care how awesome your architecture is, or how ingenious your database layout is.  They don't see it.  And half the time you spend more than a month working on an architecture for other things to use, your going to want to change it in some significant way before the game is done.

2) When the changes are visible, playable and often, your team members will be more excited about the small details.  This helps keep up excitement.

3) When you try a small section, you can decide if it is working or not.  perhaps you need to change your approach, perhaps it needs addtions later, but you've figured that out in a two week period, instead of having it jumbled in a mess of 20 things over a 6 months period.

I've run numerous failed projects, and a couple successful.  The successful ones all approached things on getting playable content however small or useless, immediately.

Moltar - "Do you even know how to use that?"

Space Ghost - “Moltar, I have a giant brain that is able to reduce any complex machine into a simple yes or no answer."

Dan - "Best Description of AI ever."

### #18Shaquil  Members

Posted 28 December 2012 - 10:23 AM

I've done collaborations on different kinds of things. One game, two books, a few songs, and one video. The songs and video were in person. The game and book were online.

I'll just talk about the game. It was about a month and a half ago. I put up a post on gamedev, weeded through the Final Fantasy + Mass Effect + Monkey Island game of the year contenders, and found an artist with seemingly modest ambitions and quite a bit of talent.

To give you the highlights: We picked up another programmer, and he was going to code up the game in Java while I did minor scripting in Lua. I did the story and helped with the art. The artist didn't even know what he wanted the game to be like himself. This is cancer for any project. He kept throwing out these insane ideas that were way too ambitious or didn't make any sense. The programmer wanted to build everything from scratch. His own Lua parser, his own XML parser, his own level editor. Despite my constant reminder that building everything from scratch is retarded and hypocritical (why build the parser from scratch? Why not write your own markup language from scratch, too? We're too cool for XML). Those two forces were tough to contend with, and I failed as a leader on the project as it quickly broke apart.

As a result of that and other non-game online collaborations, I think if you're going to work with people online, start miniscule, not small. Just show your individual work together, pass around e-mails or IM's about stuff you think is cool. Become friends. When you do work on something, make it super-duper small. I'm talking something you could probably do on your own. You need to know how well you work with each other, but also get something done for all the time you put in. From now on, my first project with any online group will be tiny like that. I don't want to jump in the deep end with people that I'm not sure can swim.

### #19CryoGenesis  Members

Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:02 PM

From personal experience, whenever I've joined a team from the classified section, it all starts out really well. Everyone is ambitious and want to create a good game.

Firstly, where it's failed for me is when the other members are from vastly different time zones. It means that you have to either wake up early to get some decision work done or stay up late. Sure, programming wise it's very easy to do because all you need is a list of things needing to be added to the game and you add it whilst everyone else is offline but, by the time you've gotten a basic concept written down, all the ambition is gone from the frustration of not being able to communicate properly.

Secondly, I find that organization in the project is always lacking unless there is someone leading the project. When it comes to team decisions it sometimes goes out of hand and people tend to disagree with other peoples ideas which can aggravate people. When it comes to deciding what to develop, if the team is comprised of non-programmers or nooby starting out programmers, people decide on the higher level of development instead of thinking of the development in a detailed way. For instance, someone in the team who is a ignorant nooby programmer or an ambitious game developer (etc) thinks: Concept(demo game), kickstarter, game, steam. This is wrong because it leaves lots of the development to be made up as it goes along. What a team should be doing is split each part into modules.

So for concept one of the modules would be engine which would have separate modules in itself, graphics, physics, world, etc.

Anyway, I'm sure collaborations work but this is just from my experience in the past.

### #20Tom Sloper  Moderators

Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:26 PM

This discussion is very out-of-place compared to the other discussions in For Beginners, but very frequently discussed in Business/Law and in Production/Management.  So I'm moving it.  But I'll leave a pointer in FB.

-- Tom Sloper
Sloperama Productions
Making games fun and getting them done.
www.sloperama.com

Please do not PM me. My email address is easy to find, but note that I do not give private advice.

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