So, when do we learn the design that you've picked? I'm interested to see what you've come up with, given the constraints within which you're working!

... with the exception of RPGs ...

And adventure games, and visual novels.

Should have social commentary, a good story without a message is just as good as idle chatter.

I take it then that you don't see much value in applicability?

... spent a few hours looking for a job ...

Good luck with your job search! I hope that you find something that suits you well. ^_^

So, when do we learn the design that you've picked?

Porbably tommorow or the next day.

And adventure games, and visual novels.

True, although adventure is a genre of its' own it still seems like a sub genre to me.

I take it then that you don't see much value in applicability?

Hmm, thats hard to answer. It still gets the reader/user thinking about the issue weather it is reaffirming their own beliefs or making them stronger providing new reasoning behind the idea (assuming they read into the story to agree with their own values).

Allegory probably works best with new ideas that others may have a hard time coming around to realizing.

Although, what I meant was the story should talk about an issue (preferable to raise awareness), not something like me saying that I ate dinner last night. I think both allegory and applicability are different than idle chatter.

I guess if I had to choose one of the two, allegory would be best, for the reasoning that it will help people think of new ideas easier. I believe most people when doing math problems use the same short cuts / reasoning and don't differ once they have a system that they like. For example I don't subtract much, I add a negative 1 + (-2) instead of 1 - 2. So, I think with applicable stories people will always choose the same way of thinking and miss any new ways of thinking.

So, when do we learn the design that you've picked?

Porbably tommorow or the next day.

Good good.

And adventure games, and visual novels.

True, although adventure is a genre of its' own it still seems like a sub genre to me.

Fair enough, although I do disagree: to my mind adventure games are very different to RPGs!

(Although it seems to me that it might, for safety's sake, be worth clarifying that by "adventure games" I'm referring to games along the lines of Gabriel Knight or The Longest Journey, not games like Zelda, which I believe that I've seen referred to by that term.)

I take it then that you don't see much value in applicability?

Hmm, thats hard to answer. It still gets the reader/user thinking about the issue weather it is reaffirming their own beliefs or making them stronger providing new reasoning behind the idea (assuming they read into the story to agree with their own values).

Allegory probably works best with new ideas that others may have a hard time coming around to realizing.

Although, what I meant was the story should talk about an issue (preferable to raise awareness), not something like me saying that I ate dinner last night. I think both allegory and applicability are different than idle chatter.

I guess if I had to choose one of the two, allegory would be best, for the reasoning that it will help people think of new ideas easier. I believe most people when doing math problems use the same short cuts / reasoning and don't differ once they have a system that they like. For example I don't subtract much, I add a negative 1 + (-2) instead of 1 - 2. So, I think with applicable stories people will always choose the same way of thinking and miss any new ways of thinking.

Before I go on, I'd like to say that I'm honestly not sure that it's appropriate of me to have started this debate here--I feel that I should perhaps be focussing on encouraging remarks, or critique regarding the games. If you'd rather not pursue this, then please feel free to ignore the following paragraphs. Writing is something that I'm passionate about, and so I'm perhaps easily drawn into debate regarding it; nevertheless, I do recognise that this is perhaps a little off-topic, and perhaps not terribly appropriate. ^^;

All of that said, I disagree with you on this topic, I believe.

I won't say that allegory has no place--not at all.

Nevertheless, I suspect that you underestimate people: I'm not sure that it's as unlikely as you suggest that someone might find in a work a non-allegorical message that runs counter to their established beliefs. Less likely than in an allegory, I imagine, but not all that far-fetched. However, I do admit that I don't have evidence on which to base this, and so don't have a strong argument to offer.

As to applicability itself, as I understand it, and as I believe that it's described in the link above, it isn't about the author intentionally placing a message in the work, but about readers finding messages of their own.

For example, two people might read a story that describes a cat struggling to reach a jar of fish, and finally, after many struggles, bringing it crashing down and eating his fill. One of those readers might finish it and note how the cat's fumbling attempts destroyed the jar and spread fish all over the floor; a mess was made, and the remaining fish will likely go to waste. The other reader might finish the story and think about how perseverance can allow one to overcome even immense obstacles. Neither was the author's intent, but both seem to me to be valid readings of the story, and each message may be valuable to its reader. This is applicability: not what the author wants the reader to think, but what the reader takes out of the story.

I also think that applicability has the advantage of versatility: one story may carry many different meanings for many different people, while an allegory is dominated by the ideas intended by the audience. I do imagine that it's quite possible for someone to find applicability in an allegorical story--but that seems to me to be more a strength of applicability than one of allegory.

Finally, I disagree that a story should have a message--but I imagine that this may just be a difference in what we value more than anything else, so I don't mean to argue the point, just register my feelings.

hey, lets continue this conversation after the competition, its a good one but I don't want to distract myself too much from creating the game.

hey, lets continue this conversation after the competition, its a good one but I don't want to distract myself too much from creating the game.

Fair enough--feel free to PM me when the competition is done! ^_^