Universitty VS. Tech School

Do you have much experience with programming? If your just starting out I might recommend a university degree in computer science. You could always fall back on that if you can't find a game dev job right off. It will also give you experience with coding that you can use towards game dev. Although if you already have experience with programming, maybe you could try tech school if you want to quickly gain entry into the field.I would think that a university degree might mean more than one from a technical school but in the end I think it just comes down to skill and talent. If you can work hard and prove it, you shouldn't have a problem. Hope that helps.

thanz everyone for ur help

I do interviewing of candidates at work. My experience has been that a strong university degree is a pretty good indicator of someone who will do well. Ideally, a Masters.

Another good indicator is someone who got his hands on other people's code and got stuff done during school years. For example, joining some fairly large, open-source project as a contributor (NOT as a "lead") would build very important skills over time.

I was also thinking about Devry's Game and Simulation program as well. I still havent completely decided. Hopefully someone can help me out with that one, because tech school reps are notorious salesmen. Here are my perceived pro's and con's, based on (somewhat limited) experience at both technical (ITT) and public (Communty College) schools.

Pro's
They cut out alot of the required courses that most universities require and focus on the technological aspects. This allows them to move students through their programs faster.

They provide pre-structured degree programs. There is practically no hassle in picking courses, since they are already planned out ahead of time.

I have noticed that student services seem to be more personal in technical schools. At ITT, the financial aid department and career counseling department were extremely helpful. At the community college I go to, they dont even let you sit down for financial aid appointments.

Community. At the campus I am at now, I dont know half the people that are in my classes. The classes are big, and you are likely not to have the same people in more than 1 class. At tech schools, chances are that the people you begin the program with will be in all of your classes untill you graduate. I got to know each of the members of my class at ITT personally, and they all became great friends. We would watch out for and help each other constantly. It was just a great feeling of commradery, that I find lacking in public college systems.

Con's
They cut out alot of the required courses that most universities require and focus on the technological aspects. This is also a negative thing, because it is easy to get burned out when saturated with nothing but technical courses.

As said earlier, many (if not most) companies are more impressed by University eduacated applicants.

Transferability is limited. Usually you can transfer courses into the program (especially math and english), but not out. Most of the courses I took at ITT dont matter now, unless I decide to go to another ITT campus.


I could probably think of other pro's and con's. Im interested in learning both the simulation and game aspects of the program, not just the games.

As someone who is about to get a degree from a tech school, I strongly recommend that you take the university approach. There are a number of problems that I've had with the tech school that I am attending.

The credits are, in my experiences, completely non transferrable to non tech colleges.

The overall quality of education is poor. I had never considered the possibility that the class book and final exam could directly contradict each other on several questions. The books contained innumerable errors, (mostly factual) very poor indexes, and blocks of text written in a bizarre and irrelevant style. Our English book was called Carry On Writing. What does that even mean? I certainly never read it. All of this combined to make earning good grades an exercise of searching the books so you can figure out which particular wrong answer would earn you points on the test. The grading system quickly devolves into a matter of who wants an A so bad that they'll read those books for hours and hours to do well on the tests. But even if you aren't, it's ridiculously easy to get good grades at this school anyway. The person with the worst grades in my class has a 3.0. You can have a 4.0, though, if you're willing to put a lot of time into learning things that aren't even true.

Obviously the teachers are very important. I'd say about half of the teachers I've had are very good, and half of them are very bad. The very good ones deserve mention, they shared career experiences and supplemented the lectures with their own thoughts, and I've learned good things from them.

The ones that are bad though, are very much so. One of them would start casual conversation during the final exams, several of them condoned and participated in pornographic discussions in the classroom, sometimes they just read the book for hours because they have no clue what they are talking about, and during the lab portion of the class they would disappear for hours.

Like I said, there are very good teachers and very bad. Not a lot of middle ground.

The equipment was often in poor condition and the network was often down. I did learn some things, but I suspect that everything that I've learned there could be compressed into a month or so of quality studying.

One thing that really deserves compliment is career services. I've had very good experiences with them and I've learned a lot. They did an excellent job preparing us for things like interviewing and things like that.

I suspect that the purpose of these schools is to train people who are already working adults for a different career. I think that the whole system is designed to churn out drone workers that have no desire or curiosity to really learn something. And at this it comes close to succeeding, if not for the very bad half of the teachers and the books.

I would certainly not recommend this route for learning game development. If they can't teach simpler things, I have no idea how they would be able to teach game development. I doubt you'd learn much, and if I were hiring for a game company, I wouldn't hire anyone that has a game development degree from a tech school unless they are just incredibly talented, but perhaps that opinion is uninformed. Well, while I'm at it, here's another uninformed opinion: I think that you should pursue something like computer science or art instead of a game development degree. You're probably going to need to learn a lot of things that aren't game development specific anyway, things like math, algorithms and data structures if you are a programmer. I think that these game development courses are becoming popular because a lot of people want to make games but they are unwilling to do a lot of work for it. They want to do the bear minimum. Maybe that's not true at the dedicated game development schools, I don't know.

And besides that, if you get a more general degree at a university, you can do a lot more with it. What happens if you find out that you don't want to make games for a living after all? A completely different type of software company probably wont take a game development degree as seriously as, say, a computer science degree, especially if the game development degree is from a tech school.

Tech schools are by and large a joke. Most community colleges are not much better. University [note the spelling...] does more than teach you how to do a job. Almost everything you'll learn is in the dormroom, not the classroom.

If your academic and financial means allow you to attend [and live at] a 4 year university, that's the best choice in every scenario.

0_0 thanks everyone, especially Ikana, your information really helped. Now I am considering a career and in Computer Science, going to an university. But i gotta do some research on it first.

Counterpoint:

What I would do is talk to people who've actually completed the univerity's degree program you're interested in. I know several people who've gotten computer science degrees from univerities and all they ended up learning was a little programming, a little networking and a whole crap-load of busines management. I started a computer science program at a local university and when I looked at all the courses I'd be taking down the line it seemed like I might have just as well been taking a computerized business management curriculum.

So, I transferred to an accredited (very important) technical college and I've discovered that it's much more challenging and in depth than the university would have ever been. The degrees are fully transferrable to most universities in the country (I've already looked into it so I can get my Masters after I graduate) and I've already, after two semesters, secured a well-paid internship with a great company that is intended to continue into a full time position upon graduation.

So, don't write off a technical school just yet. Look into it a lot and make a lot of phone calls. The business I work for looks for graduates from my technical school because they prefer the training. BTW: This is a Fortune 500 company. In the end, choose whatever school will most fit your needs, I just thought I'd share my two cents! ^_^

ok, hmmmmmmm, devry's program is till looking tempting, though, here's the over view:

"DeVry's Game and Simulation Programming curriculum prepares graduates to join the private and public sector game software industry in a variety of software development roles across the game programming life cycle, including programmer, software engineer and project coordinator. Applications-oriented, the program provides preparation in the math and physics of games; programming fundamentals; game design; modifications (MOD) and massively multi-player online game (MMOG) programming; two- and three-dimensional graphics programming; and simulation and game engine design. Also included is a full complement of general education courses, recommended by game industry experts as critical for well-rounded development team members."

and i've read, that when you get a degree from there, that you would be able to do more, not just in the game indusrty, but in other stuff aswell. I forogt the site that said that, but it is that devry site, where they give away a video game demo.
so i still might consider it.

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Original post by GokuLives Counterpoint: What I would do is talk to people who've actually completed the univerity's degree program you're interested in. I know several people who've gotten computer science degrees from univerities and all they ended up learning was a little programming, a little networking and a whole crap-load of busines management. I started a computer science program at a local university and when I looked at all the courses I'd be taking down the line it seemed like I might have just as well been taking a computerized business management curriculum. So, I transferred to an accredited (very important) technical college and I've discovered that it's much more challenging and in depth than the university would have ever been. The degrees are fully transferrable to most universities in the country (I've already looked into it so I can get my Masters after I graduate) and I've already, after two semesters, secured a well-paid internship with a great company that is intended to continue into a full time position upon graduation. So, don't write off a technical school just yet. Look into it a lot and make a lot of phone calls. The business I work for looks for graduates from my technical school because they prefer the training. BTW: This is a Fortune 500 company. In the end, choose whatever school will most fit your needs, I just thought I'd share my two cents! ^_^

When I started at my technical college, I was told it was accredited as well. I didn't know at the time that there are different types of accreditation. You should do research to make sure that your credits are transferrable to the school that you want to transfer to. When I took my credits to a community college, they didn't accept any of them at all. So do some research. Contact the schools that you are interested in, not just your tech school.

As far as your experiences with a university degree program, well, I don't have any experience with that yet. Perhaps you are right, but I suspect that the school that you attend has a *lot* to do with it.

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Original post by 1llusionz ok, hmmmmmmm, devry's program is till looking tempting, though, here's the over view: "DeVry's Game and Simulation Programming curriculum prepares graduates to join the private and public sector game software industry in a variety of software development roles across the game programming life cycle, including programmer, software engineer and project coordinator. Applications-oriented, the program provides preparation in the math and physics of games; programming fundamentals; game design; modifications (MOD) and massively multi-player online game (MMOG) programming; two- and three-dimensional graphics programming; and simulation and game engine design. Also included is a full complement of general education courses, recommended by game industry experts as critical for well-rounded development team members." and i've read, that when you get a degree from there, that you would be able to do more, not just in the game indusrty, but in other stuff aswell. I forogt the site that said that, but it is that devry site, where they give away a video game demo. so i still might consider it.

I don't have any experience with that program, but I would be skeptical about anything you hear from the tech school that you are considering attending. You need to do your own research. I know that when you are graduating from high school, the whole college thing seems like such a pain, and it can be very tempting to just put your trust in the easy solution, that's what I did. That can be a big mistake. After all, it's very unlikely that you will be able to get a degree at a tech school and take it somewhere else. If you get a degree from a tech school and you want to continue your education, you will likely have to stick with them or start college all over again, as I am doing.

Your education stays with you for the rest of your life. Don't let anyone make that decision for you. You need to find out for yourself. Try asking people that attend the school you are interested in what they think of it, try visiting the campus, talk to people like your counselors at high school, talk with traditional colleges that you are interested in, see if they will accept any credits from the tech school, things like that.

Hi,

This question comes up a lot. And I don't really know the answer. BUT, I work for a medium-sized developer, so hopefully I can give you some information, and let you decide how it weighs into your career path.

Where I work, almost all the artists have gone to an art school. Mainly the Art Institute of Seattle, as companies tend to hire artists locally. Also, referrals are a BIG thing in the game industry. So when one person comes to a company, when openings come up, they tend to get filled by friends and acquaintances. However, I will warn you that having a friend in the industry is not a free ticket to a job. You MUST be talented and hard-working.

Now, personally, I'm a programmer. And programmers at my company run the whole gamut of life experiences. There is a large percentage of people who never even went to college, or if they did, did not finish college. There are also a few people from the game-specific tech schools. I work with people who came from both Digipen and Full Sail.

Out of those two, even the guy from Full Sail even says that Digipen is a better school. Both of these guys are pretty knowledgeable about what they are doing. However, the guy from Digipen is a PHENOMENAL coder when it comes to coding under a deadline. Part of it is the guy's talent, but from asking around, Digipen really trains people for the industry.

I, on the other hand, am one of a few who went to university. Actually, I went to both a tech school and university. Tech school really trained me to easily get an IT job straight out of school, but it did NOT train me in anything gearing towards games. Also, I found the quality of education lacking at tech schools. I would skip class, get A's on tests and assignments, but get B's overall because attendance was worth 40% of your grade. This meant, that you could get a 60% on everything, and only do slightly worse than someone who showed up half the time but knew what they were doing. Also, it meant that you could show up and pass, basically.

Their excuse is that they were training you for working in the real world. But from what I've seen, this is BS. Money is a much better factor in getting somebody to show up to work on time. And the games industry is much more lax on hours. They are much more about what you can do, not how you do it.

University did not teach me much about games, BUT, it gave me broad skills towards problem solving, analysis, and ability to learn new things. I feel that these skills are ESSENTIAL when doing professional game development. When I first came to the industry, I had some good homemade demos under my belt, PC and GBA stuff, but I quickly learned how much of a n00b I really was. I am challenged and learning every day. And I feel my university education brought me to that.

Believe it or not, I believe that the non-CS courses, such as music, art, history, and language, developed those skills much better than my CS courses. I think that if you have to learn to do well in the things you are not good at, you become that much better in doing the things you ARE good at. I hope that made sense.

I hope this helps. The most I can say, is that the industry is much more about what you can do. Don't expect a degree to give you smooth sailing. Breaking into the industry is a mixture of hard work and luck. If you want to make games, make games. Whether it be making mods, programming homebrew on the PC or console (Dreamcast and GBA), etc. Good demos speak wonders. And get involved. Join the IGDA, volunteer at the GDC, stay active on boards. We've all been there, so when one of us actually makes it, most of the time, we want to bring our friends along too.

Good luck man, and I hope to be seeing you on the other side someday.

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Original post by lukeyes Interesting and useful information.

Brilliant Post.

thanks everyone, and im trying to learn flash first, because it seems like a good way to see if i like coding, or drawing, and animating better. It seems like a good way to me, to see what do i want to do. Once i have narrowed down, what i want, it should be easier to decide on a school choice.

so is flash a good way to start off?

btw ty lukeyes for the good post. but that made me wonder more, is a school like FullSail, and DigiPen better than a University? i been also considering the The Art Institute of California — Los Angeles, but thats a tech school isn't it?

imma still do some research on my own time, and see for myself, but any thoughts?

Whether you will like programming depends alot on how you learn and think. If you think in terms of words and numbers, then programming should be fairly easy. If you are like me, and think more in terms of sight, sound, and feeling, it may be a little more difficult. In my computer science class there are people who can look at a peice of code and quickly determine the output. I can determine it as well, but I need to draw a picture (like a flow chart) of how the program is executed in order to understand it. Im just beginning C ++ though, so I could get used to seeing code the way my peers do, but it will never be 'natural' for me. Put me with a bunch of computer parts and networking cable, and I can have a small office network running in a day or two. Some people are more intuitive with software, while others are more intuitive with hardware. I seem to fall in the latter category.

I dunno if that helps you or not. I am reading this book called "Learn Anything Quickly" by Ricki Linksman. There are tests in there to determine what your learning style is, as well as what side of the brain you use most often when learning. So even if you are a kinestetic right-brain learner, like me, there are ways to adapt whatever you are learning to fit your style.

I have heard people mention on this site that if you are not into programming enough to want to do it in your spare time (away from required projects), then it's probably not a good career choice for you. I tend to agree, and I think you are on the right track with trying different aspects of game design. It might lead you in an entirely different direction than programming, but I dont see anything wrong with that.

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Original post by Ikana When I started at my technical college, I was told it was accredited as well. I didn't know at the time that there are different types of accreditation. You should do research to make sure that your credits are transferrable to the school that you want to transfer to. When I took my credits to a community college, they didn't accept any of them at all. So do some research. Contact the schools that you are interested in, not just your tech school. As far as your experiences with a university degree program, well, I don't have any experience with that yet. Perhaps you are right, but I suspect that the school that you attend has a *lot* to do with it.

Exactly... research into the schools you're interested should be one of your top priorities. If credits can't transfer, there's a problem.

I'll share my mistake with you

I'm fourth term right now out of 6 and in a tech school for animation
I've wanted to make games since I first played ff7 when it came out
I have a decent understanding of c++ (from books).
Anyway... I didn't plan out when to do when I graduated from highschool, I was excellent in math and history suks in english. I filled out this paper for a guest speaker in electronics class halfway through senior year.
They call me and tell me about thier animation course and --how it's the perfect way to get into the game industry--
I thought because of my 3 years of drafting and cad in school animation would be easy and I'd get into the game idustry that way.
The school's a joke..... teachers are horrable so are the classes, I regret not going to a 4 year school for computer science like I'm planning too within a year or 2 of graduating from this place.

Tech schools are overpriced as hell....I got so much to pay back so it's probally going to mean I eat oodles and noodles
for next few years.

well point is dont go to a tech school, even if it's for game design or computer science, they over charge, the reps will say ANYTHING AT ALL to get you to join
finachel aid is horrable

THEY WOULD ADMIT A RETARDED APE if it could call the number.
Hope this helped.

Im in a tech school now. I used to think that i didn't have to go to a tech school cause I knew my stuff. It was not the analysing/solving of program code that was an issue to me..but something struck me ... I noticed that I developed software without thinking about design, immplementation etc... I found out that what I was doing was complete nonsense, because I didn't set a goal in the beginning and had no end or something forward looking for. Going to a tech school or university helps you to also see things in a more practical matter.


As a result you won't just go off doing stuff cause you think 'I WANT IT NOW'.

thanks everyone WOW, this really helped me, out, but i going to take this c++ class in summer at my community college, to see if i like it. and then that will help me alot. i will probably go to university, not only for the classes, for the experience, and i might want to learn an extra language (foriegn language), which a tech doesnt have. so that you everyone for your inputs and help.