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Instant Malt-OGRE-Meal [Abadoned]

Started by Drew_Benton Apr 4, 2005 at 2:06 PM 11 replies 3.4k views
Original Post
Drew_Benton
Drew_Benton
Ok I am abadoning this project. It turns out that the end user really needs to build their own OGRE to use and distribute - that or I just don't know how to make it work otherwise. So for all interested in getting Ogre up and running fast, use Hplus0603's suggestion about the prebuilts as well as Coldacid's AppWiz [smile]. I will be back at the drawing board trying to see where I went wrong. [headshake] [Link Removed] (Avaliable but I doubt it will work [sad])
I am in the process of learning OGRE for our game. It really looks like a neat rendering engine that is very powerful and useful, definitly better than a "roll your own". However, getting it up and running did take some time and was kind of challenging - took me about 4 total hours to get everything setup and rebuilt. I feel that a lot of people want to give OGRE a shot, and probabally have, but never got to being able to do anything with it due to trying to install it and such. So what I have done is built the most recent CVS (4-4-05) version of OGRE and made a ready to run out of the box package for all those who really want to give OGRE a try. All you have to do is download the zip, extract, open up the .sln file and simply build! When you run you will have the 'hello world' version of OGRE up and running. From there on you can work with it using the tutorials from the OGRE Wiki. So if I have any takers that give this a try, please let me know how it went. I really hope this can prove useful to someone that wants to use OGRE, for I think OGRE is a goldmine, once you learn how to use it. Just a side note, this whole package is made for VS 2003 users. The way OGRE works, there are different steps for compiling using different compilers due to the Standard C++ Library. If anyone has any questions or comments about this, I will do my best to answer. I too am still learning OGRE, so I don't know that much about it yet. [wink] Since this is meant as a quick startup to OGRE, I did not go over everything that's there in the folders. It should be self explanatory by the paths and names. This is also not the "best setup" for OGRE either, just a quick and easy way to see whether or not you want to invest your time in it. Thanks for your attention! - Drew P.S. If anyone really wants to see this done for other IDEs - I have Dev/VS6 and can try making those over the next few days as well.
So it was brought to my attention that I need to also say that I built this using the April 2005 SDK of DX, so if you don't have that, then it won't work correctly. After talking with Devnull some, I think that this little project is a fiasco [lol], so I will leave the Lite version up (Uses release mode) but take down the 21MB one. I guess I forgot how system dependent DX is :/ when building these things. Sorry! [Edited by - Drew_Benton on May 20, 2005 11:34:42 PM]
coldacid
coldacid
Thanks to you, I'm reminded to get my ass back in gear on updating my OGRE Project Wizard to work with 1.0.0 and CEGUI. Probably do that after the end of the semester (two weeks away, woot).

BTW, is this based from the skeleton code provided by my wizard? Just curious.
Drew_Benton
Drew_Benton
[smile] I'm glad you are making the update! I am looking forward to seeing that again. As for the code, I used tidbits from the Wiki, which I do not know how much it correlates with your code. I think I used the tutorials 4-8 as well as the HowTo to put together this little example. I do like the way you did it and broke it down into the seperate files. Now that I am learning it, I had to do the same thing. The CEGUI is compiled and added there, but TBH I have no idea how to use it [lol] It took me a bit early this morning figuring out how to properly compile it (always some dependecy I'm missing [headshake]) then add it to OGRE, which I leanred you still have to copy over more dependices.

For you, I would love to see an option that you can basically make various frameworks with. For example, you could choose options to add in OgreODE, the CEGUI, as well as the other stuff automatically. I think that would make your wizard way better than anything else out there (wich atm is just one thing, but I have not tried it yet). Thanks for your reply, I will be waiting for your wizard [grin]!

- Drew

[Edited by - Drew_Benton on May 20, 2005 11:59:52 PM]
Devnull
Devnull
Without downloading that 21MB lump, can I ask a bit about what's in it? =)

In looking at OGRE, I'm thinking that I probably want to do the whole-hog setup. Go with yake and then plug in OGRE, Novodex, Audiere, etc.

I DO use VS 7.1, so your file is helpful in any case there =) I'm wondering about VS 8 though as I've been seriously considering moving to it if for no other reason than the STL debugging features are a godsend.
How''s my programming? Call 1-800-DEV-NULLwww.devnullsoftware.com
Drew_Benton
Drew_Benton
Quote:
Original post by Devnull
Without downloading that 21MB lump, can I ask a bit about what's in it? =)

In looking at OGRE, I'm thinking that I probably want to do the whole-hog setup. Go with yake and then plug in OGRE, Novodex, Audiere, etc.

I DO use VS 7.1, so your file is helpful in any case there =) I'm wondering about VS 8 though as I've been seriously considering moving to it if for no other reason than the STL debugging features are a godsend.


Ok this 21MB beast contains the necessary libraries, sample media files, as well as the sample project that is ready to run out of the box. Now this package is a bit of over kill now that I look at it, so I've made an ultra lite version instead that uses Release mode only.

[Link Removed]

Contents:

* Skeleton Sample Project - Shows the basic 'hello world' styled OGRE app, which is a skybox showing the Ogre head, in which you can move around
* Necessay runtime libraries and dlls - Gotta have these suckers [wink]
* Only the fewest media items needed to show the demo, if you do more examples that use different content, you will need to have them all for best results
* All the header files needed

That's about it. I noticed the bulk of that size came from the fact of having debug runtimes as well as all the media samples. Basically you should be able to download, unzip, and have a working OGRE application to look at. [smile] If you have any other questions comments, feel free to ask!

[Edited by - Drew_Benton on May 20, 2005 11:39:06 PM]
hplus0603
hplus0603
Even a simple game can easily be 4,000 hours of work (that's about 2 guys for 10 months, working full time). If you think 4 hours of set-up is too much to get going, well, that's a good filter for whether you have a snowball's chance of finsihing a game :-)

Also, I seem to recall that Ogre has setup/installer packages that come with all the demo projects and everything; just install it and go. Did you start from there, or did you start from CVS? Starting from CVS always takes longer, for sure.
enum Bool { True, False, FileNotFound };
Drew_Benton
Drew_Benton
Quote:
Original post by hplus0603
Even a simple game can easily be 4,000 hours of work (that's about 2 guys for 10 months, working full time). If you think 4 hours of set-up is too much to get going, well, that's a good filter for whether you have a snowball's chance of finsihing a game :-)

Also, I seem to recall that Ogre has setup/installer packages that come with all the demo projects and everything; just install it and go. Did you start from there, or did you start from CVS? Starting from CVS always takes longer, for sure.


Oh, let me clear this up some, I have the feeling I've been a little misleading [embarrass]. I did use the PreBuilt SDKs (22MB) and got it up and running in a few hours. However though, it took me quite some time to figure out how to work the demos on my own. Everytime I tried to run them I'd get crazy abort errors. I eventually figured those out, OGRE errors are excelent, then tell you what you need to know, but it was still a hassal to get the demos built. I think with the SDK, some of the .cfg files were not set for the default pathing that it has. In mine, I had .cfg files that used Linux .so files rather than windows .dlls. That and the pathing to the media folder was all messed up. This was back in Feburary though, I do not know of how it is now, which with the newer release, I assume a lot better.

However, for our project, we did decide to use CVS to make sure we had the most recent version. Yes it did take a long time to build, but it went smoothly overall. After learning from my mistakes with from the first time, with the paths of the .cfgs and stuff, I was able to get the Demos working fine. I never did get around to making my own demos from scratch becuase I was working on another component of the game. So around a week ago, I was ready to move on to learning OGRE, but I didn't want to really try and mess with it myself. I found that Coldacid had made this neat APP wiz that does everything for you to setup Ogre. I used that last week and got a demo project that was fully working up and running in no time, thanks ColdAcid!

But this was after I had built the CVS and stuff. I really wanted to see something that was really just download plug and play without any mess. I mean I wanted something that was automatically configured so I can just see if it worked at all on my computer rather than having to dig though and do everything. (Note that I am saying this not as myself, but rather in the mindset of someone considering using OGRE for the next project). So, me being the person I am always wanting to learn how the stuff actually works, I decided to make this project.

I donwloaded the latest CVS and built that, which required some extra dependecies from CEGUI, which also had to be built. I then made it so someone could just download one zip file and be ready to play with OGRE without having to worry about getting other libraries or configuring Visual Studio, etc... I mean when you are not sure if you want to use something, it is best if you can simply have a one click and your ready, right? That was my main goal in this - I cannot be discouraged when something does not work [wink] I will take however long it does for me to figure it out and get it working. However, I know someone with a little less patience, will just give up - which, to be honest, I had done in Feb when I couldn't get it to work with the SDK.

So when I say it took me four hours, it wasn't a whine4 hours/whine kind of statement, but rather a who the heck is going to want to spend a lot of time trying to get something to work that they do not even know if they want to use. Let's face it, programmers are lazy! Myself included. With that said though, I did make up my mind that I do want to use this with our team so however long it takes, I don't care, I love this stuff [grin]. I've already spent about 600 hours just making the audio library the way it should be, and it's not even perfect yet.

So I have a feeling this is a tad too long, so let me finish by saying in conclusion, this is just something that was done to allow a full feature sneak peak (21mb download) at using OGRE stright out of the box instantly without having to worry about doing anything except ctrl + F5 then Enter twice. I just feel that sometimes, most libraries do not have enough "spoon feeding" material that can be used as bait to get new users. I mean once you start using this, and if you are interested, you better bet you want to try the various ways of customizing it - which then is the important time to learn how to do everything yourself. Initially, beginners shouldn't have that worry, in my eyes when they are making a decision of what to use, because what are they going to choose - something that's easy or hard? [smile]

- Drew

[Edited by - Drew_Benton on May 20, 2005 11:26:25 PM]
Devnull
Devnull
While your pre-made OGRE zips didn't work for me, the pre-built SDK from the OGRE site did. I just unzipped it, loaded the sample.sln solution and compiled the samples. All seem to run as expected.

Not at all sure what's different about yours. Maybe as I get better at OGRE I'll figure it out =)
How''s my programming? Call 1-800-DEV-NULLwww.devnullsoftware.com
mandrav
mandrav
I don't want to hijack this thread, but I 'd like to mention that the OGRE team has now made available my contribution to easily build OGRE using free tools only (specifically Code::Blocks with MinGW) under windows.

The post with the details is here.

Yiannis.
darookie
darookie
Quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
With OGRE all I'd like is a nice CHM or PDF file complete with the OGRE manual,api reference, and tutorials/examples. That was the one thing i really liked about irrlicht, well that combined with the smaller download size. A 30meg download on 56k just for documentation is just too much.

Just a hint:
You ca compile all docs to CHM and PDF - the distribution contains the necessary scripts.
Drew_Benton
Drew_Benton
Quote:
Original post by mandrav
I don't want to hijack this thread, but I 'd like to mention that the OGRE team has now made available my contribution to easily build OGRE using free tools only


Oh no not at all, at least that's useful [wink] Thanks for sharing that. I will give it a try later on after I get more used to how OGRE works. I've already had troubles with OGRE and it's internal memory managing when adding my own audio library. It's been sort of resolved, but not the way I want it to be.

[Edited by - Drew_Benton on May 20, 2005 11:04:15 PM]

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