Realm switching in MMORPGs. (purely hypothetical)

The concept of 'realms' is a purely technical issue (i.e. inability to build appropriate infrastructure and/or generate enough content to keep all players in one world). I'm not sure that implementing travelling through realms as part of game dynamics is a good idea.

Personally, I don't see why they wouldn't implement "free migration" policy. This way overpopulation would just regulate itself, no?

Another reason behind realms is some people like PvP and some don't as well as some people like heavily populated servers and others don't...

You could handle it like the "dark universe" from star trek. People can cross over, but if enough people cross it will destroy the multiverse. As more and more people joing one particular realm, life for those cross-over players would get more-and-more difficult, to encourage them to return to their home realm.

Guild Wars worked it out pretty nicely. Servers are dynamic and when one server is full a new one is created. Players can choose to change server whenever they like. I think a similar system could be tweaked to fit any mmorpg.

The best solution for games that have this Realm design would be to create 2 Realms which would interconnect and allow players to go on each and be able to interact with other players from the other realm (Since the realms would interconnect). In one Realm, PvP would be possible, in the other it would not.
This way, all players could talk with everyone else and not have to be limited with what server they want to go on.

The realm issue isn't really technical anymore. Check out <a HREF="http://www.bigworldtech.com>BigWorld, they have a networking engine where millions of players can be in the same "realm"

it is also a social issue. They want you to recognize the other people on the realm. If you always played in a random realm you wouldn't know who you could trust, who doesn't know how to do this and that, who has good advice, etc..

*Begin history lesson* [wink]

Ultima Online did something like this with "facets". Originally there was only one facet (which allowed PvP), after a lot of complaints the world was mirrored to include a second facet which had no PvP.

How well this worked is another story, the original facet emptied out (this was in large part due to housing rush). Hard core “old school” protested that their facet was a waste land (not helped by the fact OSI/EA made it look that way too with graphic changes), OSI/EA made attempts to draw people back by adding content to the old facet only (which only sparked off new complaints from “new” land people who didn’t want to PvP at all, having to deal with PvP in order to access the new content).

UO Stratics or UO for more reading/research.
*End of history lesson*

I don’t know if a tax would help, since most of it would apply when selling off items to NPCs & players would sell off items were they can make the most.

Restricting the use of items to the realm that they were collected from, will divide players (Why goto B realm? All my great armor is A realm & I don’t want to feel like a newbie or spending the time to build up a equal set of armor.)

In my opinion: Had the two facet world been the case from the beginning (along with other things), it would have been more accepted game system. But in UO’s case, doing it after the fact only it caused problems & a drop in subscribers (but that wasn’t only reason, EQ and other games helped cause that too).

I don’t believe that punishing or rewarding players for wanting to one way or another is the answer. A reward as simple as a title in their name can be enough, I’ve seen people spend hours focused on this simple thing. Typically an restriction/tax will be seen by players as such or worse as a punishment.

*Please note before discounting UO, I use UO as reference due to my long experience there & the fact that it is still the longest running MMORPG (despite it’s 2d graphics [wink]). Plus this is more about game mechanics than graphics/features)*

One server. PvP without consent outside of (most) towns. No carebears. That's the way it should be.

Damn you Trammel carebears!

I agree, except with PvP everywhere, in all towns, but the guards aren't going to like it, unless they don't see (or you give them enough gold..)

Love the user rating by the way.

I think someone should do something for that 1337 rating... It can't seriously go on for long...

As for the open PvP with guards watching, I have implemented something, which goes along with the dialogue and rating system in my text-based ORPG, so tell me what you think...

The dialogue lines only show depending on how you are rated. You are rated along four meters, which are "Good", "bad", "murder" and "beasts killed". A murder is a PvP kill, when you have been sighted by another Biped. And the higher you find yourself on the "BAD" ranking, the more likely you are to find yourself looked upon by guards within the cities limits, which means that you are more likely to get another point in your "murder" counter. You still can get away with it if you behave properly for a while, and your "GOOD" rating exceeds your "BAD" one, you'll be forgotten by the police forces. Moreover, it is a system in which you are also rated according to the REST of the players, since you are "informaly" ranked along a dangerosity scale, and if you are NOT in the topmost area, although you DO have a lot of murders on your counter, hten you'll still be safe enough...

Well, it all depends on the kind of people you are playing WITH, in fact...
And the kind of things you do, of course...

Quote:

Original post by GroZZleR One server. PvP without consent outside of (most) towns. No carebears. That's the way it should be. Damn you Trammel carebears!

Why? Because of the Realism?

http://www.tgr.com/weblog/archives/000228.html

There should definitly be something like what you mentioned, in a more controlled enviorment (Such as only PvP in special places, not just outside town or something like that, but rather in special areas where PvE and PvP is possible, so that players would know where to go and where not to go, but as you would want it, where every player could kill any other player wherever he wants, it would be completely uncontrollable and would spoil everyones fun of the game), or else any dickhead or as they call them here:

http://mu.ranter.net/theory/pvp.html

Would just keep PvPing and it wouldn't be fun for anyone else who wants to play legitly against Monsters and not have to deal with other characters (As in PvP).

Just provided 2 good links that would allow you to better understand why games should not have a no-care system where everything is possible everywhere. If the world would have been a nicer place, people would not have needed any restrictions, for anything, not just games...

There are other reasons besides server load that this doesnt work.
Look at EQ1. They have both types of servers and allow character moves in both directions...but there are equipment and gold issues when doing so.

Shadowbane kept promising that this would be possible...from any server to any server...and we had high hopes of doing a full server raid on another server...but it never materialized.

I find this to be just another whinge for people who want whatever they want whenever they want it. Its this kind of stuff that leads to complaints like "clerics have a full heal..paladins should too!" kind of thing.

There are reasons for and against what the op is asking for I suppose.

Just my 2 bottlecaps.

Quote:

Original post by XVampireX Quote: Original post by GroZZleR One server. PvP without consent outside of (most) towns. No carebears. That's the way it should be. Damn you Trammel carebears! Why? Because of the Realism?

No. The fact I enjoy challenging, engaging, exciting games.

Today's MMOs are a lot like the recess playground, except the principal is standing beside you for the whole time.

The following MMO "features" are lame: Consented PvP, level treadmills, private chat channels, lack of exploring, exclusive looting, and keeping your items when you die.

After ten minutes of combat I've got a dragon near death. Someone runs up and steals my kill. He gets the loot because he threw the last blow (I can't even try to grab some stuff because of "exclusive looting") - despite being in the middle of a dragon's lair far away from the prying eyes of the law, I can't do anything to get my loot back from him despite it being rightfully mine. Lame.

I'm hunting in Zone B because Zone A is too easy now. I'm level thirty now - maybe one day I'll be a level eighty and get to... kill more retarded AI monsters. Lame.

Someone is standing right beside you, plotting how he's going to steal your kill with his friend. You can't hear a single thing they're saying because they're on a "group chat line". Lame.

I want to explore the map and get in over my head, just for fun. Every hour I spend exploring the map I lose out on the level treadmill. This puts me further behind my peers. I have no choice but to level to stay competitive. Lame.

I was just killed by another player while resting. I don't lose any of my items and they're flagged a criminal. Lame.

I was just killed by another player while resting but now I'm flagged as a criminal. I lose all of my items because I'm flagged. Lame.

I'm inside of your guild's castle, badmouthing your mother, guild, guild leader, guild name, heritage, race, creed and code. You can't do anything about it because I'm in a guild and I'm refusing your duel requests. Lame.

I could go on and on but I think that's enough.

There's no challenge, no excitement, no fun in today's MMOs.

Step 1: Log on.
Step 2: Ask: "What zone do I hunt in at level X?"
Step 3: Find the zone. Hit "Next Target" button, hit "Attack" button and wait.
Step 4: Repeat Step 3 until next level.
Step 5: Repeat Step 2 filling X in for your new level.

There's no fear of death. You enter the scariest of Dragon's Lairs without hesitation because PKing doesn't exist and you don't lose your items when you die.

No risk. No reward. Boring game.

Quote:

Original post by GroZZleR One server. PvP without consent outside of (most) towns. No carebears. That's the way it should be. Damn you Trammel carebears!

Did I forget to mention that facet debates on most forums can get very heated? [grin]

Quote:

Original post by GroZZleRToday's MMOs are a lot like the recess playground, except the principal is standing beside you for the whole time. The following MMO "features" are lame: Consented PvP, level treadmills, private chat channels, lack of exploring, exclusive looting, and keeping your items when you die. After ten minutes of combat I've got a dragon near death. Someone runs up and steals my kill. He gets the loot because he threw the last blow (I can't even try to grab some stuff because of "exclusive looting") - despite being in the middle of a dragon's lair far away from the prying eyes of the law, I can't do anything to get my loot back from him despite it being rightfully mine. Lame. I'm hunting in Zone B because Zone A is too easy now. I'm level thirty now - maybe one day I'll be a level eighty and get to... kill more retarded AI monsters. Lame. Someone is standing right beside you, plotting how he's going to steal your kill with his friend. You can't hear a single thing they're saying because they're on a "group chat line". Lame. I want to explore the map and get in over my head, just for fun. Every hour I spend exploring the map I lose out on the level treadmill. This puts me further behind my peers. I have no choice but to level to stay competitive. Lame. I was just killed by another player while resting. I don't lose any of my items and they're flagged a criminal. Lame. I was just killed by another player while resting but now I'm flagged as a criminal. I lose all of my items because I'm flagged. Lame. I'm inside of your guild's castle, badmouthing your mother, guild, guild leader, guild name, heritage, race, creed and code. You can't do anything about it because I'm in a guild and I'm refusing your duel requests. Lame. I could go on and on but I think that's enough. There's no challenge, no excitement, no fun in today's MMOs. Step 1: Log on. Step 2: Ask: "What zone do I hunt in at level X?" Step 3: Find the zone. Hit "Next Target" button, hit "Attack" button and wait. Step 4: Repeat Step 3 until next level. Step 5: Repeat Step 2 filling X in for your new level. There's no fear of death. You enter the scariest of Dragon's Lairs without hesitation because PKing doesn't exist and you don't lose your items when you die. No risk. No reward. Boring game.

GroZZleR makes some great points for PvP without consent and against punishment. Myself or others could argue the problems of unchecked PvP, but that isn’t needed. (This isn’t meant as disrespectful. Just that I see both sides and believe that both have valid points, also it wouldn’t help this discussion).

I think that PvP is really more a matter of design (or maybe lack of design [wink]).

MMOGs struggle with unique problems, which I don’t think that I could do justice to all of them. Designing Virtual Worlds by Richard Bartle is a really great place (IMHO) to read about them from both points of view (I know personally that he changed my perception of perma death & gave me a lot to think about).

In the end I would suggest that a hard look needs to taken reasons that PvP is "needed" in a game. And when all is said & done, games are meant to be fun for the player.

*Edited for broken link*

[Edited by - Lost on August 24, 2005 10:08:17 PM]

Shadowbane originally started out with the idea that would have made it really good, but unfortunately they didn't ever conqure the technical issues involved.

It went where every server would be "different" one might be an ice world, another a fire world, one a desert, another one a giant forest. The game had no real content so creating a world was a pretty simple process. Players could gain certain sub-jobs that would allow them to use gates into the other servers. Other players could then pay those players to transport them.

The game didn't work that way, they started the game out with a large amount of identical worlds and only later started putting in unique worlds.

But the original idea would have made for one gigantic MMO.

Some of my fondest MMO memories come from SB...and I started in the second round of SB beta (4 years before release)....and had been playing MMOs years before that. (Not showing off just explaining how important SB was to me).

I really wish that it had been the game in actuality that it was in theory.
The realm switching could have been truly innovative...and add something to gameplay...but alas...only on the drawing board.

Quote:

Original post by GroZZleR One server. PvP without consent outside of (most) towns. No carebears. That's the way it should be. Damn you Trammel carebears!

Normally Id agree with you. There are good reasons to have unrestricted PvP, but with it being completely unrestricted, theres no reason that the person wanting PvP to get back at kill stealers all of a sudden gets bored and decides to gank some level 5 pup. There is nothing more frustrating in the gaming universe than getting ganked after spending a couple of hours resource collecting with that brand new chain mail it took you an arm and 2 legs to buy, and not being able to do anything about it.

While I understand the needs of resource collectors, I also understand the fun factor involved in full-on PvP. Im currently working on a solution for this with my 2D ORPG. Some ideas involve giving PKs a bounty that increases each time they kill someone more than 5 levels below them. After doing that enough, they become targets themselves. Others involve the ganked players going to Heaven after dying, and their God granting them some special power or invulnerability so they have a chance at revenge. If worse comes to worse, I may just make it so that the towns AND the roads are PvP free. Im not positive about that one though. Making it hard to get from town to town allows for lots of escort quests that will help my game along. Ill have to wait until a beta is released to see. ;)

Quote:

Original post by Omegavolt While I understand the needs of resource collectors, I also understand the fun factor involved in full-on PvP. Im currently working on a solution for this with my 2D ORPG. Some ideas involve giving PKs a bounty that increases each time they kill someone more than 5 levels below them. After doing that enough, they become targets themselves. Others involve the ganked players going to Heaven after dying, and their God granting them some special power or invulnerability so they have a chance at revenge. If worse comes to worse, I may just make it so that the towns AND the roads are PvP free. Im not positive about that one though. Making it hard to get from town to town allows for lots of escort quests that will help my game along. Ill have to wait until a beta is released to see. ;)

Only thing I would say/suggest is protection against exploiting your system (if you haven't already accounted for it).

PK kills a friend that is 6 lvl's below them over & over (building up the bounty), then PK lets his friend kill him & collect the reward. Tracking who they have killed in order to limit it to one bounty increase per person per day could help, but too could be exploited (Res-killing or just following them & annoy a single person). Limiting the bounty to once a day, just gives the person free ride for the rest of the day to be as evil they want to be.

My only thought/suggestion would be a decreasing bounty each time they kill the same player. 1st time 100%, 2nd 75% & the 5th time and beyond would be only 1% bounty increase.

*edited in*

But that still wouldn't stop a PK from killing multi lower lvl players & then having a friend kill them to collect the bounty & split it.

[Edited by - Lost on August 25, 2005 8:06:46 PM]