In-game vs. CG

If by "CG" you mean pre-generated movies (like .avi, .mov, etc.), then it depends on the situation.

Diablo II, Warcraft III, and other Blizzard games have *fabulous* predone cutscenes that simply couldn't be done in real-time. Then, there's Half-Life 2 that has done in-game 'cutscenes' fabulously, too. The way how it doesn't "take you out of the game" is great.

The main difference between prerendered and realtime rendering is, simply, when it's rendered. Movies are obviously not being rendered by your DVD player. Instead, they have been made by clusters of high end computers frequently taking over an hour to render a single frame. No one wants to play a game at 1/360 fps, so you have to sacrifice some graphical abilities for speed.

The fact that a movie is using in-game sequences for it doesn't exactly make me look forward to the movie. Sounds rather cheap to me and I could just play the game instead.

So, in a game, it depends. In a movie it had better be "CG" as you call it. (unless I've missunderstood you)

I havent seen the movie (not out yet) but fom the video's on the site, i've gather thats its more of a...compilation. Im not sure if they are telling a story or if its just a collection reflecting the past games. But overall i definitely agree that for a movie i better be seeing CG. As far as games though, would in-game cutscenes be quicker? Then again, considering the next generation in consoles, the graphics are rather top-notch (for consoles) so in-game vs CG is almost being blurred...almost :P

If that's the DVD I think it is, it's a history of what happened in the first 3 Jak games, consisting of stuff grabbed from those games ('cept some narration by Daxter, which is oh so new I suppose). Was included with Jak X Combat Racing, I think.

Quote:

Original post by Gnarf If that's the DVD I think it is, it's a history of what happened in the first 3 Jak games, consisting of stuff grabbed from those games ('cept some narration by Daxter, which is oh so new I suppose). Was included with Jak X Combat Racing, I think.

It was included? Was it a bonus of some sort, like for pre-ordering or something? I picked the game up a few weeks after it came out.

I've no idea if it was some oh so limited deal, or EU only or whatnot, but I got it with my copy of the game, and I didn't preorder (not sure how long after the release I got it, but I wasn't camping the store at launch day or any such :P -- a week or two after release sounds plausible).

When you pre-render, you can afford higher poly counts, more elaborate shaders, global illumination models, etc. Thus, pre-rendered typically looks a lot better.

However, pre-rendered has two problems:

One is that it can't take into effect character changes. If you can wear different hats in the game, they can't know which hat you'll be wearing by the time of the cut-scene beforehand, for example.

Another is that it looks a lot better -- it takes you out of the game world, and into a separate, CG world. The switch between looks can be jarring, and hinder suspension of disbelief.

Because CG uses higher polycounts, etc, it can often be more expensive to model than "just" making animations and scripts for an in-game cut-scene.

Quote:

Original post by hplus0603 Because CG uses higher polycounts, etc, it can often be more expensive to model than "just" making animations and scripts for an in-game cut-scene.

Of course you don't have to use the higher polycounts but that usually defeats the purpose.

Realtime rendering makes more sense for brief scenes that add to the story or assist with game play (in Prince of Persia such scenes direct your eye to important parts of the room). For anything drawn out, prerendering makes more sense. You'll already be breaking some immersion by taking control away anyway, plus good prerendered movies are fun.


On a side note, I'd like to mention that given players access to view at will all of the video sequences in the game after beating it... is an awesome feature for games with good long stories. After beating a game with a good story the player may want to re-live parts of it, but they may not be up to playing all the way up to those parts again.

Original post by T1Oracle

Quote:

Original post by hplus0603 On a side note, I'd like to mention that given players access to view at will all of the video sequences in the game after beating it... is an awesome feature for games with good long stories. After beating a game with a good story the player may want to re-live parts of it, but they may not be up to playing all the way up to those parts again.

So, say i just beat FFX and i want to go back through all the cutscenes 9because they rock)? :P Im eagerly awating Final Fantasy XII and its cutscenes.

Quote:

Original post by hplus0603 One is that it can't take into effect character changes. If you can wear different hats in the game, they can't know which hat you'll be wearing by the time of the cut-scene beforehand, for example.

Depending on the situation, this can be got around in different ways:
1) Prerender the different hats and just copy whatever hat into the video.
2) Have a monkey steal the hat before the cut scene.
3) Record enough information to render the hat in real-time at high quality.
4) Have real-time low quality models in a high quality backdrop.

Quote:

Another is that it looks a lot better -- it takes you out of the game world, and into a separate, CG world. The switch between looks can be jarring, and hinder suspension of disbelief.

For some. I've never found it to be a hinderance to my suspension of disbelief.

The use of pre-rendered scenes in a game is really highly dependent on the game content. I think Square is most known for their elaborate pre-rendered cutscenes, but they know how to choose the usage as weel. For the FF series of games, your equipment doesn't usually affect your character's appearance, which is why they can use alot of pre-rendered cutscenes. However, for Kingdom Hearts where the different Keyblades used is the biggest variable in the cut scenes, they've stayed almost completely away from pre-rendered stuff and stayed with the in-game models, which is pretty darn good for Kingdom Hearts 2.

I feel that using in-game models for real time cutscenes does not mean you'll have to completely sacrifice polygon count. Given the right resource budgeting, you should still be able to use a fairly decent detailed character model for real time cutscenes.

For me, it doesn't really matter if the cutscenes are pre-rendered or not as they serve mainly one of a few purposes in the game. They either reveal more of the back story as exposition, give the players a breather after some intense action, or to get players ready for the the next dramatic portion of the game (build up). They can also serve as a combination of these purposes. Of course, there are those cutscenes that don't really let you take a break. I think it was Resident Evil 4 that had cutscenes that required player interaction at certain points, which initially surprised many players, while creating a much more immersive gameplay.

Quote:

Original post by hplus0603 Because CG uses higher polycounts, etc, it can often be more expensive to model than "just" making animations and scripts for an in-game cut-scene.

this is why id prefer a in game cut scene, i dont mind the slightly lower quality but if i buy a game a want something thats fun to play, not to watch

Just so you all know, pre-rendered sequences and the actual game are RARELY handled by the same studio, and (almost) never by the game studio. Blizzard has an in-house department for that stuff, as AFAIK Square does as well. Creating film CG and game CG is almost an entirely different process. There are trends beginning to integrate the two (such as LucasArts and ILM), but the actual production of the two is almost entirely different. In fact, a game studio and the production studio it outsources the CG content to are probably not even using the same software.
So as far as CG goes, CG costs are barely effected if there is a game or not... the only reason the game matters is for the pre-production (which is actually quite a sizeable reason). Otherwise, (almost) everything is from scratch for each.

We are still a LONG way away from cinema-quality graphics. If not an entire hardware generation, then at least till the end of this one. Once we can run full rigid, fluid, soft, and cloth simulations, have larger amounts of SSS, higher resolution models, better binding, animation solvers, etc., a whole host of things, we aren't at real cinema quality... a single frame can an entire day on a computer in a render farm for the more intensive shots. It'll be a while until we reach Advent Children type game graphics.

That said, I enjoy in-game CG MUCH more than pre-rendered, especially in the late current-gen and all upcoming titles. There is definately more immersiviness and continuity in it. FF7 benefited from CG cutscenes, as did Resident Evil and a host of other games. But for the most part, I don't feel its needed, especially with lip-sync and facial animation game technology. I cringe during E3 whenever I see people get excited over pre-rendered trailers (Call of Duty 3, Fable, etc).

It depends on the game and it's camera.

For a first person game, the developer obviously wanted you to feel like you were in that situation. They make you feel immersed. In this type of game, using in-game cutscenes (ala Half-Life 2) is much better because it keeps the immersion there.

For a third person game, the developers usually were aiming to give a movie type feel. They want you to see the main character (or the star of the movie) so using pre-rendered movies usually fits as long as there isn't a drastic change in graphical quality.

Personally I prefer first person games (except vehicle games) and the in-game cutscenes over anything else. It gives me that sense of actually living this alternate life which I enjoy about games.

Out of curiosity, how do i unsubscribe from this thread? :P I have it bookmarked but i had like 5-8 e-mails about replies and such.

If I understood you correctly, I think this article adresses at least some of your enquiries.