Criticism Wanted

It sucks, you suck, no one will ever play the game and,... oh, wait, did you mean serious and constructive criticism? :P

Don't mind me, I just woke up.


but the background story sounds interesting, I would be worried about how well it worked in texted based style. You will have to have a very limited number of use words, don't have us play 'guess the word' style text games.

It's certainly one of the more doable projects I've seen posted on here. The challenge is making it flexible enough to be able to write multiple games and make modifications to the game without having to recompile. As far as ways to accomplish it, there are many. I think there are a number of open source muds that might be a good place to start (for their data management, not the networking code [wink]).

Finally someone with brain!
Sorry, I mean your idea is not to make Orcs & Elves part 312 but you actually thought up your own story, which I find highly interesting.

As far as tips, not sure if I can give any, maybe one... make a small prototype of all "features" of the game like a conversation, the discovering part and maybe a quick combat part. I am not sure why people are so obsessed by design documents, I think a quick prototype hack will show you better what works and how you can make it better.
If you got the prototypes working (consider that at best the content should be easily replaceable to keep your workflow steady at a later point) all you need to do is get them to interact with each other nicely where it is needed.

Good luck, I would like to beta test that game if you want so :).

Thanks for the feedback.

I was a bit worried the idea would be ill-received since it doesn't follow the traditional formulas for success. I find your posts rather encouraging.

@Talroth: I got into computers after the time of text-based games, so I had to go download and play a few to get a feel of how everything should work. I fully agree that the challenge shouldn't come from figuring out which words to use.

"You see a large chest in the corner of the room..."
> Open Chest
Invalid Command
> Open Box
Invalid Command
> Open Container [0]
Invalid Command
> Exit

:-p

@tstrimp & kiome: I have considered using an open source mud or text-game engine to prototype the whole game, but I am trying to use this as an opportunity to practice with all the crap I've shoved into my mind. I'll probably do what you (tstrimp) suggested and take a look at some of the code for reference. Kiome, I liked the idea of prototyping the individual parts and doing the early development in a modular pattern. That never really crossed my mind, so thank you.

In related "news": I've decided not to talk much more about the story. Has nothing to do with "leik omg peepl will steal my idea", its just because a good storyline can be the only saving grace for a text game. Sure, I intend to have the whole "environment interaction/item usage" thing emphasized, but without graphics, sound, or free movement, alot of the "fun" will probably lie in playing out the story.

Maybe...maybe... "fun". ;)

The concept's historical context kicks megatons of ass. Good on ya for breaking with tradition. ;)

That said, I'm actually a little disappointed that the game is presented solely as a text adventure, but I realize you've got to work with what you've got, and you deserve another pat on the back for being realistic. (We're all sick of the "I'm going to make an MMOFPSRPG with ten million unique NPCs" concepts.)

All of *that* being said, and speaking from a purely design standpoint, I would suggest striving to hook all your puzzles (or as many as possible) into the historical/social context of the game. So instead of "use hammer on window" stuff, you focus on puzzles that incorporate the character's unconventional knowledge (fulfilling the parts of an occult ritual, for example) as well as exploiting the powder keg social dynamic that would surround the controversy of the subject matter (science vs. religion, etc.)

For the social side of things, the puzzles/gameplay could be as simple as dialogue trees (with an NPCs personality providing context and clues for the "correct" answers) or as complex as implementing concepts like "memory" and "reputation", where you could (potentially) play NPCs off each other through clever interaction, and so forth.

-Josh

"All of *that* being said, and speaking from a purely design standpoint, I would suggest striving to hook all your puzzles (or as many as possible) into the historical/social context of the game. So instead of "use hammer on window" stuff, you focus on puzzles that incorporate the character's unconventional knowledge (fulfilling the parts of an occult ritual, for example) as well as exploiting the powder keg social dynamic that would surround the controversy of the subject matter (science vs. religion, etc.)"
-Invicticide

Oh definitely, I was just using the hammer/window thing as an example.

My friend was having a hard time understanding how this game would work, and I gave him an example of using knowledge of magnetism to steal a cell key, etc etc.

I will probably not use that in the game, but that is generally how things will work. "Oh I have (this) and (that), and I need to do (whatever)... hmm... I bet (some idea) would work!"

I would love to go into all the details and various ideas I have for this game, but I don't want to a)bore everyone & b) jinx it.

Concerning the delivery: Yes, it pretty much has to be text-based. I can say "oh I plan to do it in 3d and make use of Shaders and advanced physics" if it makes you feel any better. ;)

To be honest, anybody could take this idea and make it and that would thrill me. Not going to happen though, so I've got to settle for an experience that may not appeal to a player's senses, but hopefully their curiosity.

I think that in the times since most text adventures came out, there have been a lot of advancements in natural language processing, to the point that it means that a true "text" adventure becomes possible. That is the player can write in natural language and the system will be able to interpret what they mean and parse it correctly.

Just a random though: What about using voice recognition software (is there middle ware available for this?) to allow the player to speak, instead of type their commands in.

As for the story/theme it is a refreshing break from the stock standard fantasy or sci-fi cliché that fills the shelves.

Thanks for the feedback.

I don't think I'll be employing any voice-recognition in the design because frankly I'd like to finish this project. :-p

I'm aware of my skills and lack thereof, and at this time I think I need to keep my game within the realm of "fairly easy to do".

Quote:

Original post by crazyishone "You see a large chest in the corner of the room..." > Open Chest Invalid Command > Open Box Invalid Command > Open Container [0] Invalid Command > Exit :-p

From your mouth to God's ears. I love text adventures, but after the fifteenth time I hear, "Yeah, that's tricky, you can't stab or slash the giant with the sword, you have to "Eviscerate Titan" or else it doesn't work," I'm pretty much done with the genre for a couple years.

I recommend a sort of handy help feature, like have the "Inspect" command give suggestions. "The BEJEWELLED BOX is cold and octagonal, too firmly mounted to TAKE, but there's a keyhole on the side. Perhaps there is something you could UNLOCK the BOX with."

Yeah, thats a good idea. I'm going to attempt to make the challenge lie in figuring out the puzzle or problem, not using the right syntax or action.

I think it's fantastic. You've got an original idea, and you aren't getting caught up in the snazzy new technologies. I think the text based path is a great way to develop your story and game mechanisms. Also, if you decide to move on to 3D graphics at some point, you'll have a great story line/source of inspiration. I find the problems that often stall my projects are rarely technical, but inspirational. I really think you've got your bases covered there. Now: go code it! I want to play :D.

Well so far I've gotten only good feedback, so I think I'll proceed to actually make the game.

Wish me luck.

>Looking around the room, you see a noob
>Inspect Noob
>This noob is fears the mountain of challenges ahead of him. How pathetic.

Haha :-p

1. not sorcery and witchcraft both, witchcraft only. check history of witchcraft
2. not Roman Catholic Church but Inquisition and secular authority - check again
3. there was no curriculum of physics at the time you write of (so John cannot be a scholar in that)- check
4. same for human anatomy etc.
5. you are mixing two things, Earth being flat and Earth being center of the universe. they did not have the same level of acceptance.
6. it is narrativelly illogical to be able to study revolutionary things, while on the run. it takes time, man
7. the further concept is the run of the mill, seen too many times. i cannot imagine any special interest in playing such a game
8. you posted you want the negative critism too; this is it.

Quote:

Original post by Borkhan 1. not sorcery and witchcraft both, witchcraft only. check history of witchcraft 2. not Roman Catholic Church but Inquisition and secular authority - check again 3. there was no curriculum of physics at the time you write of (so John cannot be a scholar in that)- check 4. same for human anatomy etc. 5. you are mixing two things, Earth being flat and Earth being center of the universe. they did not have the same level of acceptance. 6. it is narrativelly illogical to be able to study revolutionary things, while on the run. it takes time, man 7. the further concept is the run of the mill, seen too many times. i cannot imagine any special interest in playing such a game 8. you posted you want the negative critism too; this is it.

Ah, you're playing more a semantics game here than really helping him out.

He said the guy is a scholar, he didn't say specifically that he was at a university studying anamatomy or physics. He said the guy was radical...maybe he is forming his own conclusions on known sciences?

And he just said the guy was accused of sorcery and/or witchcraft. This could mean many things.

And he's not mixing anything up with earth being center of universe and flat. They both WERE commonly accepted at the time...but of course on different levels. You're nitpicking and being anal just to show off.



I think the game idea has potential, although I have no idea how much knowledge of he has or the depth potential of this game. I wouldn't presume. That would be ignorant.

It's been a while since I've looked into this kind of thing, but you might kick off your journey at the Wikipedia entry for Interactive Fiction Development Systems. There are a number of available IF engines. Like I say, it's been a while, but the current incarnation of the old Infocom Z-Code seems pretty cool. You can find a pdf game dev manual for it if you poke around a bit. My memory is hazy, but I seem to recall someone making a Z-Code environment that produced a standalone exe. But of course if the whole purpose of you making this game is to learn how to create an IF engine yourself, then my post is totally not useful. :
Best of luck! Sounds like a cool game.

I agree that the idea has potential and is fresh, not the usual herosavingbeautyagainstevil. My main point was, that witchcraft has been persecuted by Inquisition and secular authorities (and not by RC church per se), in catholic, protestant and calvinistic states (except in Spain). Otherwise, yes, all minor points.

Thanks for the suggestion das otto, but I'd like to program it.

Pluvious: Thanks for the support.

Borkhan: Heh, yeah you bring up good points. Don't worry, I'm doing my research. I wrote the original post to give people the general idea of the game. As I'm shooting for authenticity, I'm not going to just make stuff up and call it factual history.

I've decided that the story will take place around 1610. Anatomy was being poked into by various alchemists at the time, but human anatomy was still considered a taboo subject. That is why "john" isn't having a good time: society is, for the most part, opposed to him.
1610 is also shortly before the birth of Isaac Newton, who played perhaps the greatest roll in the emergence of physics. Now, in the game everything before and during 1610 must be accurate. Anything after, I can rewrite. Who is to say "John" doesn't ponder the falling of the apple? (Of course I won't use this, just making a point.)

"the further concept is the run of the mill, seen too many times. i cannot imagine any special interest in playing such a game"

I'm not sure what you're talking about here, but you are probably right. The game is not intended to be "fun" in the traditional sense. Intellectually challenging is the goal.

"it is narrativelly illogical to be able to study revolutionary things, while on the run. it takes time, man"
Well it won't be written like 'you should pay attention to what the old man says... it might be REVOLUTIONARY!"
Many of the things the character will come across were considered revolutionary. For example, many people and esteemed "authorities" were not comfortable with the heliocentric theory. Regarding the pace of the game, the player will have to combine some outside knowledge with their knowledge of the game's context and things "learned" in the game. It will be a linear story, not usually more than one way to solve a problem. No replay value, but I'm not making an RPG so that is fine with me.

"1. not sorcery and witchcraft both, witchcraft only. check history of witchcraft
2. not Roman Catholic Church but Inquisition and secular authority - check again"

He is accused of witchcraft and sorcery. That doesn't mean they are the same, nor does it mean he is actually a witch or sorcerer. This is just the public view.

Thank you for the negative criticism though, I actually do appreciate it. It helps me fine tune the concept. I am especially appreciative of the reminder that the "Inquisition" and similar things were not confined to the Roman Catholic church. I was brainwashed at a younger age and am just now starting to get rid of the old crap. ;)

[Edited by - crazyishone on December 5, 2006 8:03:41 PM]

well, here I must correct myself:
Inquisition was specifically Roman Catholic Church Instrument.
Witchraft craze was strongest in Germany, France and possibly Scotland. But it was present in the whole Western and Central Europe. Protestant states therefore did not have Inquisition, but were persecuting witches anyway, with quite a vigour (you could say that was the only thing they took over from "papists"). The exception being Spain, that had the strongest Inquisition of them all, but, interesting, the same Inquisition did not persecute witches (they did persecute of course Jews, Moors, heretics etc.).

if you plan to start in 1610, than I propose to think about the following:
- that period is the time when the power in Europe slowly shifted from Spain to France (process ending somewhere after 1648)
- when Netherland was fighting again for the independence and growing at the same time into a the world power
- when Counter Reformation did win back Southern Europe and Austrian empire and started to act in Germany, preparing in a way the 30 years war
- when science advanced in strides

as always, im not saying im right, but this is the period, i have studied some.

otherwise i agree with your standpoints and again, such a game would a refreshing change, at least concerning the background (for now) :-))

"- when science advanced in strides

And so gentlemen, I present to you my idea. ;)

Thank you Borkhan for your extensive and honest help.