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Last Thread Next Thread |
| ISO 2D RPG engine searching for highly experienced engine & editor coders *updated* |
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mvBarracuda Member since: 2/3/2005 From: Dresden, Germany |
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 Posted - 1/2/2007 3:47:06 PM |
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| Team name: FIFE developing team. Project name: FIFE - Flexible Isometric Fallout(-like) Engine. Brief description: Just like the name of our project suggests we work on a new open source engine for isometric RPGs. The engine started as a Fallout-related project but we recognized very fast that it offers the potential to be used as a general 2D isometric engine for the development of cross platform RPGs. The engine supports the assets of the original Fallout games but it is meant to be suitable for the creation of all kind of 2D RPGs. We are focusing on the programming of the engine itself but will bundle it with an example mod. This way modders have a starting point to create their own games based on our engine. Since we do not focus on the creation of a complete game we will be working on comfortable and easy-to-use editing tools. Engine and editor are planned to run on all flavours of Linux, Win32 and MacOSX. The FIFE project is almost 20 months in development now and we have released five public pre-alpha and alpha versions of the engine on sourceforge / freshmeat over this time. We did recently release our latest stable milestone: FIFE 2007.1. Now that the work on the 2007.1 milestone is finished, we're currently working out the roadmap for the next two upcoming releases after that: 2007.2 & 2007.3. Target aim: Open source GPL v2.0; non-profit Compensation: We are confident that advanced coders will find it quite exciting to work on the creation and the designing of a whole engine with other experienced and passionate open source coders. But as we're a non-profit project the only thing we can provide is the satisfying feeling to work on an ambitious project. Technology: Linux, Windows, MacOSX C++, Boost library SDL, OpenGL (optional) Warning: It seems that we should have stated this earlier as a lot of coders seem to be overstrained with the undertaking of creating a whole engine. That is not meant to sound rude but FIFE is a quite complicated large-scale project that needs a different working approach compared to smaller projects. We're searching for experienced C++ developers which want to take the challenge and work with other serious and experienced programmers. Please have a look at our code first before you apply for any position. There were several developers who applied for positions in the past who couldn't cope with the task and did leave the team. As this is neither satisfying for you nor for us, the best way to find out if you want to take the challenge is to have a look at our current code base. You can either get the most recent code from our Subversion repository or download a fresh engine snapshot from our homepage (if you're not familiar with SVN yet or don't have the needed tools installed). If you got a Subversion client installed (we suggest to use TortoiseSVN if you're on win32), you should definately go for the SVN checkout. The source packages tend to become outdated rather fast as they're just updated for every major milestone. SVN sourcecode checkout: Quote: HTTP sourcecode download: FIFE 2007.1 src package Talent needed: Engine designer & programmer - position(s) open Advanced C++ skills and engine design knowledge are required for this position as you will need to make design decision about the architecture of the engine. Experience with SDL, OpenGL or QT would be really appreciated but isn't a must. It is far more important that we find someone who can invest a serious amount of time to improve the engine design and give the development a direction. Engine programmer (misc.) - position open We're searching for developers who are able to improve certain aspects of the engine. Possible development areas are: * Audio code development (OpenAL, for a more detailed description, have a look at the following paragraph) * General SDL-related development (e.g. rewrite of the current input manager) * GUI-related development (using luaGUI, our own Lua wrapper for the guichan GUI library) * Map-related tasks (pathfinding, line of sight, etc.) * SDL software renderer development * OpenGL hardware renderer development * Scripting / Lua development * Unit test development Engine audio programmer - position open Our audio programmer has been quite busy lately and had no time to work on the engine audio code therefore. We're trying to find a developer who has experience in working with cross platform programming in general and in working with OpenAL in particular. As there is no other audio expert on the team besides this one inactive programmer, there are unfortunately no well-defined tasks for improving the code. Therefore your task would to be to analyze the current audio code that is in place and develope a strategy for improving it feature-wise and bring up refactoring ideas if you think that even the structure of the code should be improved in specific places. Although the old audio programmer is inactive at the moment, our other developers will help you getting into the code and support you with specific feedback about possible feature and structure improvements of course. So no need to be afraid: you'll be working together with a rather experienced team of developers (this project is in the works since over one and a half years) who will always try to help you out if you run into any dead ends. Editor designer & programmer - position open Advanced C++ skills and engine design knowledge are required for this position as you will need to make design decision about the architecture of the editor. We did initially plan to use qt4 for the editor, however our old editor programmer went absent without official leave :-/ So we decided to leave the decision which GUI library to use for the editor to the programmer who wants to work on it. Some possible choices are: As long as it's open source and works cross platform (Linux, Win32, Mac) we're fine with whatever library you choose :-) It's hard to define a good starting point for the editor programmer, however he should be familiar with the engine code itself to understand the way the engine works and adopt this concept for the editor. One possible starting point would be to have a look at the recently finished map format design document and the archetypes concept: FIFE XML map format design document Archetypes concept Team structure: (only currently active members listed!) Phoku - engine designer & coder Jasoka - engine designer & coder Sky0 - engine coder jwt - engine coder mvBarracuda - project manager My job as project manager is to keep the team together and to ensure that the communication structure inside the team works so everyone enjoys working on the project. Among other things I'm responsible for the news updates @ FIFEngine.de, the project wiki and to provide the official and unofficial win32 packages. Website: Homepage Development wiki Getting started guide for interested developers Doxygen code documentation Design documents Developer blog Roadmap for the upcoming releases Current release: Stable: FIFE 2007.1 Win32 (official release based on r1004) FIFE 2007.1 src package (official release based on r1004) Experimental: FIFE r1222 Win32 (SVN snapshot) Ways to contact the team: IRC channel: irc.quakenet.org | #fife eMail: mvBarracuda@web.de icq: UIN -> 98600423 Important: You can either use our free XMLmaps with the engine or access the original Fallout maps with it. If you want to use the Fallout maps you will need a legit copy of Fallout 1 or 2. The FO 1/2 maps are far more advanced compared to our own XMLmaps. However the new 2007.1 release ships with our new demo map: official_map.xml. This is the first more advanced FIFE demo map that shows how our map format and specific concepts like archetypes, tilesets and object prototypes work. To give you an impression about the status of the project we took sample screenshots of the current release (The latest two were feature customs maps of the 2007.1 release, however the majority of the shots were taken with Fallout maps and older releases of the engine): New map with buildings created by wulax:  Official 2007.1 demo map: official_map.xml:  FIFE with real square tiles. Useful for the creation of classical non-ISO 2D games like jRPGs:  Split personality. The new multiple cameras feature:  Welcome to the New California Republic:  FIFE offers a console interface to debug your games with:  One of our first custom XML maps with placeholder graphics:  Transparency for roof tiles:  Feedback: Feel free to add whatever feedback you like :-) Critics will help us to improve the project. [Edited by - mvBarracuda on June 3, 2007 6:51:04 PM] |
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jyk GDNet+ Member since: 10/23/2003 |
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 Posted - 1/2/2007 4:01:36 PM |
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Quote:Just wanted to say that based on this and your previous posts in this forum, this seems like a first-rate project. Best of luck with it - I hope you find the person or persons you need to round out your team :) |
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jbadams Moderator - Help Wanted Member since: 9/26/2002 From: Seaford, Australia |
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 Posted - 1/2/2007 11:59:55 PM |
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| Good to see you guys are still plugging away at this, it's constantly been one of my favorite projects to consistently advertise here since I took on the moderator position, and you always have some steady progress to show. As always, I'd highly recommend this one to anyone who feels they may be able to fill the position. Best of luck with finding some suitable help and continuing your excellent progress.  |
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Pete Michaud Member since: 12/6/2006 From: Jacksonville, FL, United States |
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 Posted - 1/3/2007 10:19:04 AM |
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| I would have your man-babies if you released this with a comprehensive editor... |
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mvBarracuda Member since: 2/3/2005 From: Dresden, Germany |
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Posted - 1/3/2007 3:51:07 PM |
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At first I want to thank you two: jyk & Kaz :-) It's motivating to know that such notable members of the community still believe in the project. Thank you guys.Quote: We would really like to deliver a first version of our map editor FIFEdit with the next release, however this won't happen :-( Our editor coder didn't got any time for FIFE anymore because of job reasons and did leave the team. There is currently no developer working on the editor tool and we've got a hard time to find a replacement for him since months. So if anyone thinks he can handle some GUI-heavy coding action, please contact us. Maybe nobody is really familiar enough with QT; I'll ask the other coders and we might simply trash the idea of using QT4 for the editor and leave the choice to the developer who works on it. I'll keep you updated about the new release. Looks like we can release it at the weekend. :-) |
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Roots Member since: 8/21/2004 From: Austin, TX, United States |
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Posted - 1/3/2007 7:17:40 PM |
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Nice to see that FIFE is still alive and kicking.  Sorry to hear you're having editor woes. Why don't you try posting on sites like linuxquestions.org? I have a feeling that if you're using QT4, you'll have a better chance of finding a GUI programmer from the Linux community than the hobbyist game developer community. BTW: we use QT4 for our editor as well and the only major problems I recall that we've had with it were getting the make setup for it to build on our various operating systems. I think its a pretty good editor, and in fact we have our OpenGL-based video engine embedded within our editor, so its pretty darn convenient to use. -------------------------------------- Hero of Allacrost http://www.allacrost.org A free, open-source 2D RPG in development. New demo released September 21st 2008, visit the website for the goods! |
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mvBarracuda Member since: 2/3/2005 From: Dresden, Germany |
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Posted - 1/3/2007 9:28:30 PM |
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Quote: Alive: yes :-) Kicking: not really :-/ The progress of the last months was rather slow as our most important coders and me were dead busy with university / job :-/ But we hope to attract some new guys who want to help to speed up the development process with this posting. Quote: Sounds like a plan :-) I guess it can't hurt to register at yet another forum and try our luck there. Thank you for the pointer. Quote: I'll try my luck in the next days to have a look at your editor code. I did just talk to our coders and they agreed that we should drop the qt editor idea. That does not mean that we'll completely give it up but if an interested editor coder would like to use another GUI library he's free to do so. We hope to be able to fill the editor coder position this way :-) |
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mvBarracuda Member since: 2/3/2005 From: Dresden, Germany |
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 Posted - 1/6/2007 9:56:02 AM |
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| Really noone interested in this project? It would help us to get some feedback how we could enhance our help wanted posting to increase the chances to find an interested developer who's willing to fill a position in the team. Do you think that the project aim to create a whole engine for isometric games is too ambitious, is the team too small for this undertaking? Didn't you like our code, coding standards, progress rate? Do you think that 2D ISO games are dead anyway and it's not worth working on such a kind of engine anymore? Any kind of feedback from the community would help us to find out where we can do better and bring the project forward. We started working on FIFE as there was no similar 2D ISO engine that worked on different platforms; so we thought that there would be surely a "target audience" for such a kind of engine :-/ But anyway: here is some new eye candy for the ones who want to have a look at some fancy new pictures. Image #1 shows the new hex grid mode; the NPCs are already scripted and move over the map. Image #2 gives you an impression of our new ingame console; it accepts lua command / scripts and you can already take screenshots and load maps via the interface. Click on the screens for the fullscreens versions, they were rather huge so I just posted the thumbnails in this thread.   |
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Karan Bhangui Member since: 9/5/2006 From: Toronto, Canada |
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Posted - 1/6/2007 10:11:53 AM |
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Quote: No to all the questions! I believe people are just too intimidated by your project's professionalism. I think that people on gamedev who are looking for that perfect project should really check these guys out. When i first started game dev a few months ago, i thought of using FIFE. The limitations to their iso engine are next to none. It's really an amazing group of developers putting together an amazing bunch of software. I suggest that people take this thread seriously as apposed to "omg, i wanna maek a game, please join me and we'll be rich!" threads. This is the real deal gamedev. |
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GPxz Member since: 6/24/2006 From: Sao joaquim da barra, Brazil |
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Posted - 1/6/2007 10:23:34 AM |
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| Maybe the lack of financial compensation can be unmotivating But, by the way, why dont you add network code and turn it a MMO? Is this graphics ripped? |
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mvBarracuda Member since: 2/3/2005 From: Dresden, Germany |
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Posted - 1/6/2007 10:30:52 AM |
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Quote: Because we're fans of the traditional old RPGs and we feel that MMORPGs push the genre into a direction we strongly dislike. There is already an excellent 2D MMORPG around, so why make another one: The Mana World - A free of charge, open source 2D MMORPG We want to offer fans of the old RPG classics like Fallout or Planescape Torment a platform to create great single player RPGs that run crossplatform. Quote: I did state in my initial post that the shown screenshots use the original Fallout maps and yes: these are gfx from the original Fallout games too. Our engine supports loading the Fallout file formats but doesn't come bundled with these files. So if you want to use our engine in combination with the Fallout files, you'll need to own a legal copy of either Fallout I or Fallout II and copy the files from the CD into the FIFE folder. |
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GPxz Member since: 6/24/2006 From: Sao joaquim da barra, Brazil |
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Posted - 1/6/2007 12:13:37 PM |
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Quote: Yeah, youre right, MMO takes a little away the objective of any game: make you have fun MMOs focus on the competition between players, and everyone wanting to be the number one, destroying all the fun of it Plus the lack of storyline, plots and etc |
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Crazyfool Member since: 8/28/2006 From: Diamond Bar, CA, United States |
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Posted - 1/6/2007 2:07:16 PM |
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| I know you've guys have had enough "This is awesome!" but this is like the Dream Team for GameDev.. at least from what I've seen ;) Good luck, though it looks like you guys don't need it ;) |
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mvBarracuda Member since: 2/3/2005 From: Dresden, Germany |
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Posted - 1/6/2007 3:23:28 PM |
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Quote: It probably just looks like we're already in the final stages because we use the Fallout gfx for the screenshots. The truth is that there is a whole bunch of work that needs to get addressed and we're lacking developers to do so :-( So don't get fooled by the screenshots: there is still a very long way to go for FIFE and the prolly best way to learn about the real project status is to have a look at the sourcecode. We're just hoping to find at least one additional coder who sticks to the team by this advert :-) Common guys, have a look at the code at least. |
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GPxz Member since: 6/24/2006 From: Sao joaquim da barra, Brazil |
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Posted - 1/7/2007 8:26:58 AM |
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| One bad thing, i tried to contact you to ask some questions, but you seems to only have ICQ. ICQ is outdated and not more popular. A project maneger interested in gathering new members like you should have atleast MSN |
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mvBarracuda Member since: 2/3/2005 From: Dresden, Germany |
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Posted - 1/7/2007 8:45:20 AM |
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Quote: I've got an MSN address too but you'll need an irc client if you want to participate anyway. So the best idea is to catch me on irc or icq :-) But if you really want MSN: mvBarracuda AT web DOT de |
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Pete Michaud Member since: 12/6/2006 From: Jacksonville, FL, United States |
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Posted - 1/7/2007 9:29:19 AM |
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| I would like to help, but I'm not qualified just yet. Maybe give me a couple months, and I'll be more comfortable with this kind of code. |
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mvBarracuda Member since: 2/3/2005 From: Dresden, Germany |
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 Posted - 1/7/2007 9:55:00 AM |
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Quote: No problem Pete :-) We're open source and got no publisher in the back that needs to get the project released to get the next one funded. We were a bit overambitious about the progress in our first months but we've learned that it's impossible to keep up a high rate of progress without serious real life issues. So now we've accepted that the project progresses as fast as it can and we've stopped to worry about these kind of issues. If anyone demands faster progress and / or more regular releases we can simply tell him that he should think what he can do to speed up development. So take your time and have a look at our sourcecode. You can ask questions about it at our irc channel or the developer mailing list, both linked above :-) EDIT: Okay, just found out that the developer mailing list hasn't been linked there. All this kind of information can be found at our wiki too but for your convenience: FIFE developer mailing list information @ the FIFEwiki |
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mvBarracuda Member since: 2/3/2005 From: Dresden, Germany |
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Posted - 1/7/2007 11:29:50 PM |
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| Just wanted to announce that our first public release for 2007 is out :-) Have fun with it: Download FIFE 2007.0 release for Win32 @ Sourceforge.net Install guide: 1. Download 2. Execute the self-extracting 7zip archive and uncompress to a folder of your choice 3. Read the readme.txt that can be found within the folder where you uncompressed FIFE |
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mvBarracuda Member since: 2/3/2005 From: Dresden, Germany |
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Posted - 1/9/2007 7:26:06 PM |
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| And finally the src package is up too :-) Enjoy: FIFE 2007.0 src package |
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mvBarracuda Member since: 2/3/2005 From: Dresden, Germany |
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Posted - 1/12/2007 7:40:05 PM |
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| Really noone interested? Ohh common guys, I know that there is somebody out there who always wanted to work on a rather large scale project to prove his skills and collect more experience. :-) One of our coders updated the roadmap for the next official FIFE release. Have a look and feel free to comment on it: FIFE 2007.1 roadmap |
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Roots Member since: 8/21/2004 From: Austin, TX, United States |
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Posted - 1/12/2007 8:15:22 PM |
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I am stumped why you guys are having problems finding people, yet all of these dead-end teenager MMORPG projects get an influx of applicants. If I wasn't working on Allacrost, hell I would apply right away. Are you trying more forums than just gamedev? Gamedev usually gives us the best return for programmers, but we've managed to snag a few from other sites as well (plus, the extra publicity couldn't hurt).  -------------------------------------- Hero of Allacrost http://www.allacrost.org A free, open-source 2D RPG in development. New demo released September 21st 2008, visit the website for the goods! |
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tentoid Member since: 9/25/2004 From: Helsinki, Finland |
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Posted - 1/12/2007 9:11:08 PM |
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Quote: Here's an interesting blog entry that sprung into my mind when I read the above post: Don't make the demo look done. I've been following FIFE's progress (=seen posts also on NMA & RPGCodex) and I have even thought about helping the team but, alas, I find my programming skills inadequate for working on a large scale team project such as FIFE. Recently, I've been tinkering with an isometric rendering engine of my own and I've browsed through your wiki for some implementation ideas (ooh, nasty?). Instead of doing my own isometric engine, I could start using FIFE for the project I'm planning. But.. I've understood that FIFE is far from complete (like you implied) and hence not suitable for a "serious project". Another reason is that if I create my own engine, it's easier for me to work with since I know exactly how it works. And conserning the (un?)popularity of acquiring new devs for FIFE .. Just by judging the screenshots, FIFE *looks* like it's very restricted and downright obsolete technology! This is because your demos are using Fallout art assets. As far as I know, that's not really the case and your engine does support higher colour palette etc. The Fallout art assets are just a bit misleading since it's a 10 year-old game (even though a great one!). We live in the age of almost photorealistic 3D engines with great lighting, reflections, shadows and all that fancy stuff. I guess most "pro" people will want to work on 3D stuff rather than a 2D isometric engine. Personally, I think 2D isometric beats 3D in especially in RPGs. Perhaps you should create a small gameplay demo using FIFE and new art assets? UPDATE: Ok, I downloaded and tried FIFE. First note: after installing all the necessary libraries the scons builder crashed (Syntax error). After going through your SConscript and SFConfig files I found out the problem: In code/sr/engine/SConscript there's a function get_filter() where you use return eval(x.read()). x is a SFConfig file which contains a dictionary. eval() doesn't seem to like the fact that you feed it with a string with line breaks. So I did a quick hack and changed the try block into this: try: x = file(os.path.join(path, our_config_name), 'ru') data = "" for line in x: data = data + line.strip() return eval(data) I'm using Python 2.4.4c1 and scons v0.96.92.D002 in Ubuntu Edgy. In total it took me about an hour or so to get the thing compiled. mapview_test worked but your default maps are a tad boring to look at. ;) I couldn't try FO1/FO2 maps since I unfortunately uninstalled Fallout just earlier this week. I figured I won't be playing it for some time.. how wrong I was :( Anyways, some of the gui/demo scripts worked. I didn't manage to run the ruleset scripts but I suppose they're not even meant to (error was: 'attempt to call global 'FIFE_RegisterObject' (a nil value)') If I have time I'll install FO1+FO2 sometime next week and try out FIFE some more. [Edited by - tentoid on January 13, 2007 12:11:40 AM] |
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mvBarracuda Member since: 2/3/2005 From: Dresden, Germany |
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Posted - 1/13/2007 4:25:19 PM |
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Quote: I guess it's not that easy to find interested people for engine programming especially as the engine needs to be used in combination with Fallout at the moment to get a good impression what can be currently done. I hope it's easier to find new interested programmers as soon as a first version of our map editor is released and people can start making their own maps for FIFE. This way we should get some decent free maps and don't depend on Fallout anymore to get more guys interested in the project. You can seriously believe me that I've tried over a _dozen_ of sites to recruit new developers. At the majority of them there was no reaction at all though this could be related to the form of our help wanted post. We've basically recycled the post from here and the mass of information prolly scares some people off. Quote: Thanks for the link :-) I'm pretty sure to have the time to give it a detailed read tomorrow. Quote: I had some stomachache when I posted about us just searching for "highly experienced coders". The reason why we did so is that we had quite some interested programmers in the past that took a look at the project, joined and did leave after some weeks without much or even any work done at all. They didn't even answer my mails, otherwhise it would easier for me to tell you what was the real issue. I guess they did just realize that they were overstrained by the task. Though this is just a guess so feel free to prove me wrong if you think there are other possible reasons for this kind of behaviour. Quote: Nasty? If we wouldn't want our information to be used in other projects, we wouldn't post it on a public wiki :-) Quote: Hmm if you "just" want to create an own isometric game right now FIFE is surely not the best solution if you're able to write your own ISO engine too. However I hope that FIFE becomes a serious option as soon as the first version of our map editor gets released. Quote: Restricted and downright? I disagree not just because I know that it's not but also because I had the impression that our aim is to create a flexible engine, that's why we actually call it Flexible Isometric Fallout-like Engine. But this "Fallout-like" could prolly irritate some interested developers indeed. I'll think about this. We offer own XML maps in our 2007.0 release too but I agree that: 1. The maps are rather ugly 2. No NPCs 3. Just some test objects As already mentioned: we seriously hope to provide some fancy maps with own gfx as soon as a first version of FIFEdit is ready. Hopefully that helps to show that the engine is _NOT_ meant to be a Fallout emulator. Quote: I think that the 3D RPG hype is surely a reason why the majority of programmers would rather work on a fancy 3D engine. However I know a developer from the industry who's sick of all the 3D RPG hype and really likes to work on some old school ISO RPGs as it's easier to get lost in fancy effects if you create 3D RPG instead of concentrating on vital RPG aspects. Quote: That's planned *g* as soon as a first version of the map editor is available. Quote: Thanks for reporting this :-) We did just find the same issue and I'm to blame (at least kind of ) :-( One of our linux coders packaged the release but I've updated it with more recent sources from SVN and changed some details in the README too. It seems that 7zip messed up the archive by inserting win32 line breaks in the files. The tagged 2007.0 release from SVN (tags/core/2007.0) works but the package from sourceforge got this issue indeed. We're currently fixing this issue and we'll release an updated 2007.0-r1 source release tomorrow. I'll let you know as soon as the updated and fixed package is up. Update: The new package has been just released. Download it here: http://downloads.sourceforge.net/fife/FIFE_2007.0-r1_src.tar.bz2 Quote: You should definately test the maps from Fallout 1 and / or Fallout 2. We can hopefully offer a similar quality with our XML maps in later releases. Quote: The ruleset scripts aren't meant to get directly called indeed. You can specify which ruleset file to use in your fife.config. Quote: That would be really appreciated. Thank you for the detailed and constructive feedback :-) [Edited by - mvBarracuda on January 15, 2007 9:25:15 AM] |
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mvBarracuda Member since: 2/3/2005 From: Dresden, Germany |
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Posted - 1/24/2007 2:45:07 PM |
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| Seems like we finally found someone who wants to work on our editor :-) But one additional engine coder would be a great help for the team too. We're still working on the 2007.1 milestone but make good progress. A couple of tickets were already fixed so mid 2007 sounds like a realistic date for the next release. The roadmap for the 2007.1 milestone was slighty updated too. You can read about it here: FIFE 2007.1 milestone |
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