Built "my own" computer again, but it does not boot.

All of the correct power connectors in place and securely connected? PSU set to the right input voltage? Do you have another graphics card you can drop in for testing?

Did you make sure all your cables are hooked up correctly? :) I ask because I'd switched some of the connectors inadvertently before, it can really screw things up. Did you also make sure you have the spacers between the motherboard and the case (yes, I made that mistake before as well). :D

Quote:

Original post by ApochPiQ All of the correct power connectors in place and securely connected? PSU set to the right input voltage? Do you have another graphics card you can drop in for testing?

All three power connectors (the ones that were marked with PCI-E) are connected. One into the motherboard (at the same spot as the CPU power cable) and two into the GPU.

This is my first PCI-E card ever, so I do not have anything else to try. :/

Quote:

Original post by xycsoscyx Did you make sure all your cables are hooked up correctly? :) I ask because I'd switched some of the connectors inadvertently before, it can really screw things up. Did you also make sure you have the spacers between the motherboard and the case (yes, I made that mistake before as well). :D

Spacers between mobo and case are there, and as I said the rig works just fine without the GPU. :)

I guess I am just surprised that 600W might not be enough! Sure, according to the manual the recommended amps are 26, and the PSU only delivers around 23. Makes me wish I had another PSU.

Nvidia states that 450W Power is minimum.


This site has an article, which worries me. The Power Supply reviewed works at 850W.

Quote:

The SilverStone ST85F Power Supply has been giving BSOD's (Blue Screen of Death's - nvdisp) when using my system for everyday gaming. The nVIDIA System Sentinel also notifies me that my GPU is not receiving adequate power. I've tried to recreate these problems with another power supply, but the system remained stable. Score has been updated to reflect this issue. I suspect that it is not supplying clean or adequate power to the GeForce 8800. Other users of the ST85F have also complained about this issue, along with other issues (motherboard, etc.)

Edit: Nvidia also states that the 8800 requires 12V current with a rating of 30A. This chart hints that the Strider PSU only can deliver 18A maximum. Perhaps all those 12Vx combine for a total of 42A?

Confusing!

Quote:

Original post by SymLinked Nvidia states that 450W Power is minimum. This site has an article, which worries me. The Power Supply reviewed works at 850W. Quote: The SilverStone ST85F Power Supply has been giving BSOD's (Blue Screen of Death's - nvdisp) when using my system for everyday gaming. The nVIDIA System Sentinel also notifies me that my GPU is not receiving adequate power. I've tried to recreate these problems with another power supply, but the system remained stable. Score has been updated to reflect this issue. I suspect that it is not supplying clean or adequate power to the GeForce 8800. Other users of the ST85F have also complained about this issue, along with other issues (motherboard, etc.) Edit: Nvidia also states that the 8800 requires 12V current with a rating of 30A. This chart hints that the Strider PSU only can deliver 18A maximum. Perhaps all those 12Vx combine for a total of 42A? Confusing!

I got a similar message when I didn't have the pci-e connector plugged into pci express videocard before so make sure all your connections are secure.
Other than that only things I can think off top of my head are:
1.Cheap quality powersupply that doesn't supply as much power as it says. Plenty of reviews on web show that even with dual 8800 max powerdraw of 2cards is under 500watts so you should be ok but your rails current might not be enough and that's a different story.
2.Your motherboard,etc is grounding out somewhere.
3.Your cpu is overheating or your motherboard needs updated bios to support your cpu.

p.s. I keep an old nvidia pci fx5200 card just to troubleshoot these sort of things and it's saved me quite a number of times in the past from thinking motherboard kaput,etc. I think they still sell them for under $50 and it's a good investment if you are planning on building any more pc's or fixing them for anyone.


[Edited by - daviangel on March 29, 2007 9:20:36 PM]

Quote:

One into the motherboard (at the same spot as the CPU power cable) and two into the GPU.

Most motherboards don't use PCI-Express for auxiliary power. They use 20+4 or 20+8 connectors.

Anyway, I don't think your PS is enough. For an 8800 GTX I would recommend something like a PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad to make sure there's enough current (it's actually certified up to dual 8800 SLI).

You might want to buy one of those, AND a $29 cheap-o GeForce 7300, to debug your system. First, try booting it with the cheap graphics card. Once that works, try the power-hungry monster. Compared to the overall cost of the PC, a $29 graphics card is probably like 1% of the cost :-)

I agree with trying a different PSU. The only time I've experienced what you're reporting is because of a bad power supply or insufficient power.

Did you forget to plug in your ghost PCI-E chip. The small board that goes to your other PCI-E slot if your motherboard is SLI ready. You need this chip as a placeholder, for some reason or another..I don't really know why, but something tells me that might be your problem.

Quote:

Original post by daviangel 1.Cheap quality powersupply that doesn't supply as much power as it says. Plenty of reviews on web show that even with dual 8800 max powerdraw of 2cards is under 500watts so you should be ok but your rails current might not be enough and that's a different story.

Thanks for your reply daviangel!

The Strider PSU got top rating on Tom's Hardware in their tests. They used to be trustworthy before, not sure about now though.

Quote:

Original post by daviangel 2.Your motherboard,etc is grounding out somewhere. 3.Your cpu is overheating or your motherboard needs updated bios to support your cpu.

Then it would behave in the same way without the GPU, and it does not.

Quote:

Original post by hplus0603 Quote: One into the motherboard (at the same spot as the CPU power cable) and two into the GPU. Most motherboards don't use PCI-Express for auxiliary power. They use 20+4 or 20+8 connectors.

So I do not need to use it? The motherboard manual said that the connector was for the GPU. There was another similiar one one the side and it was stated to be used for the CPU. If I removed that one, the CPU fan would not move when powering the rig. I assumed it worked the same way for the GPU.

Quote:

Original post by hplus0603 Anyway, I don't think your PS is enough. For an 8800 GTX I would recommend something like a PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad to make sure there's enough current (it's actually certified up to dual 8800 SLI).

That is just odd because Nvidia says 450W. Oh well. Guess I will return the Strider and try to get hold of something similiar to one of those Silencer Quad's. They are not being sold in Sweden as far as I can tell.

Quote:

Original post by bladerunner627 Did you forget to plug in your ghost PCI-E chip. The small board that goes to your other PCI-E slot if your motherboard is SLI ready. You need this chip as a placeholder, for some reason or another..I don't really know why, but something tells me that might be your problem.

I honestly have no clue what a ghost chip is, but I will keep your suggestion in mind when I get back to the case later.

Quote:

Original post by SymLinked Quote: Original post by hplus0603 Anyway, I don't think your PS is enough. For an 8800 GTX I would recommend something like a PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad to make sure there's enough current (it's actually certified up to dual 8800 SLI). That is just odd because Nvidia says 450W. Oh well. Guess I will return the Strider and try to get hold of something similiar to one of those Silencer Quad's. They are not being sold in Sweden as far as I can tell.

There is a difference between voltage and current. What hplus0603 is saying is that your 8800 is drawing too much current. Even though your PSU exceeds the voltage requirements from Nvidia, it can't provide enough current. Thus, it does not function.

Quote:

Original post by SymLinked Quote: Original post by bladerunner627 Did you forget to plug in your ghost PCI-E chip. The small board that goes to your other PCI-E slot if your motherboard is SLI ready. You need this chip as a placeholder, for some reason or another..I don't really know why, but something tells me that might be your problem. I honestly have no clue what a ghost chip is, but I will keep your suggestion in mind when I get back to the case later.

A "ghost chip" (I've never heard that specific term used, but it's irrelevant) is a "placeholder". For example, in the days of RDRAM, they were required to essentially say, "there is no RAM here" if you had empty slots.

I've not heard of them being required for single-card use in a SLI-capable motherboard, but I've never worked with SLI setups, so what do I know? If anything, it's worth a try.

My father built a new computer quite recently that showed similar symptoms to yours. He was able to fix it by switching to a different power supply. Don't skimp on the power supply; aside from various more mundane problems, I had an inexpensive (Antec) power supply almost set my house on fire a few years ago when it started shooting sparks out the back! (Luckily I was around at the time and was able to turn off the computer and move stuff before anything caught fire.)

Quote:

Original post by Don Quioxte There is a difference between voltage and current. What hplus0603 is saying is that your 8800 is drawing too much current. Even though your PSU exceeds the voltage requirements from Nvidia, it can't provide enough current. Thus, it does not function.

Thanks for your defination of ghost-chip ;)

Hey! Current = Amps? I called my retailer and they said the Strider had enough, and efter checking the chart link I posted (above) it says 41 Amps total on 12V while the GPU requires what, 27? How can that be "not enough"? (Not obligating btw, just making sure before I pay for another PSU :()

UPDATE

I got the setup to boot by replacing the PCI-E GPU with a TNT2 PCI. It behaves strangely while booting up, but at least it runs.

Here's a video of how it looks inside when it is booting up. Notice how the power button is only pressed once during the clip, yet it "starts" twice.

Googling the behaviour hints that it is common for the P965 chipset, but it still worries me quite a bit.

I think I will try to return the 8800. Unless the specs for the PSU are false (which Toms Hardware says it is not in their test) then it can not be the PSU and the only choice left is the 8800.

Other parts besides the graphics card take current at 12V; if your hard drives, cd drives, graphics card, motherboard, and other 12V parts combined take too much current, you're in trouble.

Also, some PSU's provide two separate 12V 'rails': each rail can produce up to 20 amps, for a total of 40A. If both graphics card connectors are on the same rail, it's trying to draw 27A from a 20A rail, which causes problems, even though the other rail isn't being maxed. See if you have several PCI-E connectors that you can experiment with using different ones. (If two are connected together outside of the PSU, they're definitely on the same rail.)

Plus, with cheap power supplies, manufacturers often list the power as total amount they can take from the wall (instead of the amount they give to the computer): if the power supply uses 6A at 120V from the wall, it may be listed as a 720W supply, to make it look better. However, it may only deliver 25A at 12V, 20A at 5V, and 15A at 3.3V, for a total of 300W+100W+50W=450W actually delivered to the computer. Of that, only 300W can be used by 12V devices. So just because a PSU has a huge watt rating doesn't mean it'll give your graphics card enough current.

[edit] Looking at the chart above, your 12V is actually divided into 4 separate rails, which add up to 41A. So if you hook up the graphics card to the 13A and (16 or 18)A rails and don't use those ones for anything else, you should be good. Then you'll be left with the other two rails for your motherboard, hard drives, etc.

Quote:

Original post by Don Quioxte A "ghost chip" (I've never heard that specific term used, but it's irrelevant) is a "placeholder". For example, in the days of RDRAM, they were required to essentially say, "there is no RAM here" if you had empty slots. I've not heard of them being required for single-card use in a SLI-capable motherboard, but I've never worked with SLI setups, so what do I know? If anything, it's worth a try.

I've got an SLI motherboard and have used both a single 7800GTX and a single 8800GTS in it without needing anything to fill the empty second slot.

Quote:

Original post by nagromo Other parts besides the graphics card take current at 12V; if your hard drives, cd drives, graphics card, motherboard, and other 12V parts combined take too much current, you're in trouble. Also, some PSU's provide two separate 12V 'rails': each rail can produce up to 20 amps, for a total of 40A. If both graphics card connectors are on the same rail, it's trying to draw 27A from a 20A rail, which causes problems, even though the other rail isn't being maxed. See if you have several PCI-E connectors that you can experiment with using different ones. (If two are connected together outside of the PSU, they're definitely on the same rail.) Plus, with cheap power supplies, manufacturers often list the power as total amount they can take from the wall (instead of the amount they give to the computer): if the power supply uses 6A at 120V from the wall, it may be listed as a 720W supply, to make it look better. However, it may only deliver 25A at 12V, 20A at 5V, and 15A at 3.3V, for a total of 300W+100W+50W=450W actually delivered to the computer. Of that, only 300W can be used by 12V devices. So just because a PSU has a huge watt rating doesn't mean it'll give your graphics card enough current. [edit] Looking at the chart above, your 12V is actually divided into 4 separate rails, which add up to 41A. So if you hook up the graphics card to the 13A and (16 or 18)A rails and don't use those ones for anything else, you should be good. Then you'll be left with the other two rails for your motherboard, hard drives, etc.

Interesting! There are two pair of cables. One which says PCI-E 12V3 and another which says PCI-E 12V4. There are of course other pairs as well, but they do not say PCI-E. I guess it does not matter?

I used both cables from the 12V3 pair previously.
Are you saying I should try one cable from two different pairs, since the GPU has two connectors? Actually, I am going to drive to my friends house and test that. Thank you!

Edit: I can not find the 12V1 and 12V2 as shown in this picture. Confusing. I will try the two PCI-E outputs and see if it works.

[Edited by - SymLinked on March 30, 2007 3:08:34 PM]

Thanks to everyone and especially so - nagromo. I wish I could buy you a beer or two.
What I did was to plug in one cable from the 16A AND the 8A (instead of 16A or 8A seperatly) and everything boots now.

I have to admit that I have not tried anything serious with the GPU yet, as I have to get new drivers. But at least it boots now which is a great step forward.

16A + 8A = 24A
24 * 12V = 288W

And I think Nvidia said you needed ~240W for full power. Not sure but it should be enough.

As for the fans starting up, then shutting down and starting up again - that seems to be a P965 thing which it does when the BIOS boots up for the first time, or when you have changed the CMOS.

Hopefully this thread might be helpful if someone runs into this in the future!

Quote:

Are you saying I should try one cable from two different pairs, since the GPU has two connectors?

Correct! Feeding both connectors from the same rail won't help you any, because the card might as well pull all the power from a single rail at that point.

Btw: if your motherboard actually has PCI-Express connectors, then I suggest those should be populated (in addition to the card). I hadn't seen that before, but the system manufacturers come up with new tricks all the time.

For the power supply (or parts in general), check the cost of importing to Sweden. The dollar is low because of the US spendthrift habits, so it might be comparable to get it by the phone from newegg, paying air shipping and value added tax.

Quote:

Original post by hplus0603 Quote: Are you saying I should try one cable from two different pairs, since the GPU has two connectors? Correct! Feeding both connectors from the same rail won't help you any, because the card might as well pull all the power from a single rail at that point. Btw: if your motherboard actually has PCI-Express connectors, then I suggest those should be populated (in addition to the card). I hadn't seen that before, but the system manufacturers come up with new tricks all the time.

Sure, but I think it is not very logical to have two cables on each PCI-E rail, if they are insufficent to power todays cards anyway. I mean, there are two cables basically hanging in there, one from each rail, which is not a pretty sight.

Quote:

Original post by hplus0603 For the power supply (or parts in general), check the cost of importing to Sweden. The dollar is low because of the US spendthrift habits, so it might be comparable to get it by the phone from newegg, paying air shipping and value added tax.

Been there, done that :) The shipping went for like $90 and I will never do that again. Thanks though!