Curiosity on Artists
Author
Hello there,
I'm just a bit curious...
I've been hiring for a specific project of mine, and I found it quite easy to get programmers, musical composers, writers, designers of great talent (not just noobs) to get interested in the project... but for some reason, I'm struggling to get 2d artists to respond (I have only 2 atm).
I feel like I might not be communicating in 'their language'.
So tell me, what do you think an artist needs to know about a project to feel interested or not? That'd be incredibly helpful.
I know the project has great potential, I just feel like there is this communication barrier between me and these artists that currently hinders our progress in terms of assets...
Someone suggested already that artists speak through images, that they don't like reading about the project, they want to 'see it' and I believe that may be true, however, I'm not sure about what appeals to them in that regard. Concept art? Artistic references? Tech demo screenshots?
At the risk of sounding like I'm crackin' wise, my first thought is that the language you're missing is that which describes how much you'll be paying these artists. Whatever idealistic faux-justifications given (in your project post), being paid - and well - will produce reliability.
The art example you link to in your project post is professional quality work; Anyone who does that is getting paid for it. And if characters like those are animated then the amount of work it takes to hand-animate them can be phenomenal, depending on exactly what you're doing. There's a good reason that free games with lots of character art tend to use low-end 32x64 sprites with 2-4 frames of animation for a walkcycle!
You're making a free project - you might be trying to shoot to high, asking too much, though I don't know how all your art actually looks or what your direction is. Art can be a hell of a lot more work than people imagine, especially having it done well.
Other than that, artists aren't magical butterflies that need to be spoken to in special artist-language (at least not with useful artists - if they can't read a few paragraphs, do you really want to have to babysit them?), though pictures can be useful for an artist to gauge if they can fit their style with that already established by the game.
And perhaps you're looking in the wrong place if you're only looking here -- though I don't like to make a point of it, GD.net is currently structured, designed, and branded extremely poorly for amateur artists.
The art example you link to in your project post is professional quality work; Anyone who does that is getting paid for it. And if characters like those are animated then the amount of work it takes to hand-animate them can be phenomenal, depending on exactly what you're doing. There's a good reason that free games with lots of character art tend to use low-end 32x64 sprites with 2-4 frames of animation for a walkcycle!
You're making a free project - you might be trying to shoot to high, asking too much, though I don't know how all your art actually looks or what your direction is. Art can be a hell of a lot more work than people imagine, especially having it done well.
Other than that, artists aren't magical butterflies that need to be spoken to in special artist-language (at least not with useful artists - if they can't read a few paragraphs, do you really want to have to babysit them?), though pictures can be useful for an artist to gauge if they can fit their style with that already established by the game.
And perhaps you're looking in the wrong place if you're only looking here -- though I don't like to make a point of it, GD.net is currently structured, designed, and branded extremely poorly for amateur artists.
Yeah if you want to get artists to work on your project reliably, you'll probably have to pay them something. I spent a long time trying to find artists for my project, but no one wanted to join, so I decided to set aside a little bit of every paycheck to pay for art, putting it in a special account. I then made a post in the Job Offers forum on DeviantArt, and started looking around in the Job Services section for people that fit the style I was looking for. Sure enough, within a day there were plenty of people wanting to art for basically nothing. There are plenty of skilled college students that will do art for beer money.
Any more, most 2D artists are not pixel artists. You should specify pixel artists and put the sample of what you want as the first thing in the post, or consider not using pixel art in the game.
Author
I hear ya, but I beg ti differ unfortunately.
These are your personal experiences.
As I'd like to remind you, this project has been deemed worthy by already two very talented pixel artists to actually work on. Also, I don't see why artists want to get paid when, programmers with overkill experience join for free. I've never had any issue with programmers in the past, and I consider their work to be of great value (I won't try to measure who works the most here, as I consider them two very important assets to any game).
As for "payment", I think it applies mostly to the market. In an indie project, I'd rather have everyone in charge of what they do, even if consistency is diminished. Artists should have an impact on the style, and not just serially produce for the leading entity. Besides, I offered alternative payment to people onboard already, and they feel contempted with that.
Big question is, it works for everyone else, why not artists as well?
Is it because artists think they are worth more? Or, like I said, because I just don't quite communicate adequatly with them (I'll admit, I do perceive artists like magic butterflies, in the sense that I'm not too sure I know what makes them tick, and as a matter of fact, visual art is the only thing I've never worked on in a project (I've even made music)).
These are your personal experiences.
As I'd like to remind you, this project has been deemed worthy by already two very talented pixel artists to actually work on. Also, I don't see why artists want to get paid when, programmers with overkill experience join for free. I've never had any issue with programmers in the past, and I consider their work to be of great value (I won't try to measure who works the most here, as I consider them two very important assets to any game).
As for "payment", I think it applies mostly to the market. In an indie project, I'd rather have everyone in charge of what they do, even if consistency is diminished. Artists should have an impact on the style, and not just serially produce for the leading entity. Besides, I offered alternative payment to people onboard already, and they feel contempted with that.
Big question is, it works for everyone else, why not artists as well?
Is it because artists think they are worth more? Or, like I said, because I just don't quite communicate adequatly with them (I'll admit, I do perceive artists like magic butterflies, in the sense that I'm not too sure I know what makes them tick, and as a matter of fact, visual art is the only thing I've never worked on in a project (I've even made music)).
Artists, and writers too, have a lot more difficulty making a decent living than programmers. As a reaction to that, both of these communities have a moral, "no one will buy the cow if you're giving the milk away for free". An additional factor is that what programmers contribute to a game project is often more fun and gives them more creative control than other types of program they do; it might also be easier. Just the opposite is true for artists - the art game projects need is more boring, more difficult, and more constrained than almost any other kind of art the artist could be doing.
I am a artist and I can validate what sunandshadow is saying, and I don't need to say anymore than what he's said. ;)
Author
Quote:Original post by 3shirtlessmen
I am a artist and I can validate what sunandshadow is saying, and I don't need to say anymore than what he's said. ;)
I think its a 'she' btw.
@Sunandshadow
Interesting point, however, it doesn't seem to apply to writers. I've had so many interested in the project, you wouldn't believe... and quite strangely, the quality level was there.
As for artists having a rough time making a living, I have to disagree: the level of people I'm working with, most of the time, is commercial level. Most end up freelancer or over-paid within the industry. Any decent artists doesn't really struggle to get a job.
I've also agreed to give a reference letter to anyone worthy of one.
As some might know, my current status in the industry is sure to guarantee the letter will at least be read, and might just be the one turning point to get the person into an interview. It stirs, at the very least, enough curiosity to ask about it, and hopefully, even cause people to call me at the office.
I think these reasons are just excuses, and do not apply to the level of people I'm looking for. I need real reasons.
You're dismissing the real reasons "she" gave you. ;)
Now, as an artist, here's my thought process when someone says "Hey, your work is good, join my project. We have all the talent in the world, and already have great progress. At this rate, we will ship in 1 year. No payment."
1.) I would rather spend my summer or off-time 'pimping' my portfolio. I don't need an indie project to make good art. I can make whatever I want for my own portfolio with my own budgets and to the quality I want.
2.) There are always competitions going on for Blizzard, Epic, Bethesda, ID that are 'community' 'fan art' driven. For artists looking for jobs, this is a great opportunity as an 'art test'. I've seen artists hired from these 'fun community' events.
The reasons above save the artist time, but also give them great connections into the industry.
Obviously, this could amount to lots of things for programmers or writers as well but sociologically speaking -- I've seen this more with 2d / 3d artists.
Now, as an artist, here's my thought process when someone says "Hey, your work is good, join my project. We have all the talent in the world, and already have great progress. At this rate, we will ship in 1 year. No payment."
1.) I would rather spend my summer or off-time 'pimping' my portfolio. I don't need an indie project to make good art. I can make whatever I want for my own portfolio with my own budgets and to the quality I want.
2.) There are always competitions going on for Blizzard, Epic, Bethesda, ID that are 'community' 'fan art' driven. For artists looking for jobs, this is a great opportunity as an 'art test'. I've seen artists hired from these 'fun community' events.
The reasons above save the artist time, but also give them great connections into the industry.
Obviously, this could amount to lots of things for programmers or writers as well but sociologically speaking -- I've seen this more with 2d / 3d artists.
Author
So, If I understand correctly, artists are the only one that charge up money because they feel sociogically low-balled? Whereas everyone else can agree to work on a project because of its intrinsect value...
that seems a bit odd?
Obviously, your first point cannot explain the difference. A programmer or designer can also work on his or her own stuff for the portfolio, but truth be told, companies don't hire people solely based on quality but on dedication to actual projects and team working (its actually harder to work on commissionned work than what you just feel like doing). Believe it or not, its one of these criterias that are well known within the industry...
As for competitions, I've also seen game design and game dev competitions...
I still fail to see the difference being underlined here. I mean, there must be some kind of a reason? It can't just be a question of artistic ego...
that seems a bit odd?
Obviously, your first point cannot explain the difference. A programmer or designer can also work on his or her own stuff for the portfolio, but truth be told, companies don't hire people solely based on quality but on dedication to actual projects and team working (its actually harder to work on commissionned work than what you just feel like doing). Believe it or not, its one of these criterias that are well known within the industry...
As for competitions, I've also seen game design and game dev competitions...
I still fail to see the difference being underlined here. I mean, there must be some kind of a reason? It can't just be a question of artistic ego...
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