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Is Game Development a rewarding Career, or just a Legal Sweatshop for Creative People

Started by BaristaBill Dec 21, 2001 at 3:56 PM 9 replies 800+ views
Original Post
BaristaBill
BaristaBill
Hello everyone. This is my first post, so take it easy on me. Some of my earliest memories, in my life; It was 1981, I must have been 5 or 6 years old (Yes, which makes me 25 now). My father had bought a new Commodore Vic 20 with a tape drive. He hooked it up to the TV, and before he could finish leading the first program from tape, I had taken over the operation. I was hardly old enough to read, but the Vic 20 caught my attention immediately, and set my life in motion. Before long I was loading games from the Tape Drive or typing in the samples in the manual, playing them, and even learned that I could save them back to a blank tape (A novel concept, but I thought I was onto something big). It was pretty much then I knew what my destiny would be. Computers. To this day they fascinated me beyond my wildest dreams and have given me direction in life and career. I went through the C64, C128. I had a PC JR, a PC AT, and even a Commodore Amiga, on top of mounds of PC Clones. I’ve had an Atari Pong, Atari 2600, Colecovision, Master System, NES, Genesis, SNES, PSX, and now a Xbox. All great systems, literally thousands of games passed through my life. Ever since those earliest days of rational thought and memory I’ve always said, “I want to be a Game Programmer”. Pretty much everything I’ve done career wise has been a step in that direction. I currently program business/enterprise apps, however I do what I can to survive as I learn and sharpen my skills. 3d Modeling, Learning C/C++, Studying DirectX, reading books on game architecture, design, and publishing. Above all. Playing games. That is the fuel that feeds the fire. Passion for games and gaming. Playing any quality title is enough to set me off on a rampage. It makes me want to go print out a bunch of storyboard pages, and start scribbling down ideas or dive into the latest game development theory, or read a bunch of “words” that somehow relate to 3d engine algorithms. I can’t say I learn or absorb any of it, but surly it has to be swirling around in my subconscious waiting for the day to shows its head in a rage of creativity. So what is the point of all this blither? Well, I was recently speaking to a good friend of mine. He is one of the most talented C/C++ people I know. He’s the kind of guy who writes device drivers (If you know what I mean). The guy could code anything. So I keep pretty close connections with him (Not to mention he is a superb person). So I asked him. “*&#*&, why have you never gotten into game programming? You’re an immensely talented individual and I would imagine have little problem getting a foot in the door with your level of experience and understanding of Visual C/C++.” He replied “Well Bill, I’ve got a few good friends who work, or have worked, in that industry (He named a few big development houses). Truthfully, much of that industry is run like a sweatshop for talented kids much like yourself. It seems that you are one of MANY people wanting that position, so for the most part you’ll be underpaid, overworked, and all but used to profit the 4-5 people high up the latter driving the Jags and BMWs.” This has plagued my thought a lot lately. Currently I make a 50K+, 9-5 doing simple business programming that any noo-b could do with no more than a few VB tutorials, and SQL books. Not to say my job is easy, but well. It is for me. I’m just paid well because I have the experience and most of the world has not caught onto how simple VB & SQL really is. I’m not saying I don’t understand the fact that Game industry is a hard industry. I know many projects require long hours, and immense dedication. But does it ever change? Not to say everything revolves around money, but well. Everything revolves around money. Creativity can be rewarding only so far before you realize that your getting paid $50K, and your boss is now driving around in a new Jag directly being paid for by your long hours and creative efforts. More than likely, I’m going to pursue this no matter what, but it would be nice to know what to look out for. My current plans are to devote 2 years of my life to this, once my wife graduates and begins her career (2003?). So some lucky development house will get a creative bullet, for little of nothing. I figure if I can’t do it in 2 years, without a strong financial need, then it’s not worth my doing. Like I said, you can only do so much, for free. Quite Simply, what is your view of the Game Industry? Is it as bad as I fear, or am I blowing things out of proportion? What are average salaries for beginning, intermediate, and senior level developers? What kind of workweek do you normally see? Above all, is it as fun and as rewarding as I have always dreamed it might be or am I setting myself up for a huge disapointment?? Serious replys only. Thanks for you time, and good luck. Barista T. Bill
Hase
Hase
Tere was a salary survey on gamasutra some while back, you might wanna check that out.

I work for a rather small company (about thirty people) and I´m happy with it. The pay is ok, I love the work and the hours are usually not that bad either. If there is a deadline coming, you have to bite it sometime, but that´s just how it goes I guess.

I have talked to people of larger companies, there it seems to be a bit worse, communication problems between management and developers seem to be rather frequent. Still, I couldn´t say that it´s as bad as you think, and the pay will always be above sweatshop level.

Gaiiden
Gaiiden
you''ll hear all sorts of stories like these... and they''re aaaaaaaaall true, muahahahahaaaaaa. Pay can seem sucky at firstm and the hours can be long a lot. But if you''re in it for the money... sure money''s cool but what about the enjoyment of game programming? That''s where I get my kicks.
Drew Sikora
Executive Producer
GameDev.net
jellocaca
jellocaca
Yeah, I know how you feel, bro. Same thing for me. Exactly Exactly same thing, man. (Though I''m 18). So I''m still a student.

Me too, after a while of seeing what''s happening(growing up, washing my eyes, reality check...), I was a bit disapointed and felt betrayed. But man, it was my dream since I was ~10. Even if it is for one game, I''ll do it, but at what price?

Gaiiden says: "I program just for the fun of it. "
I say it''s stupid to let ppl eat your food that you hunted like that.

I don''t know how to say it, but THE GAME INDUSTRY IS ROTTEN AND STINKS!!! The more I grow up, the more I smell its horrible odour, just like hollywood''s, nike''s, etc...

Man, I told myself: just shut up and do like everybody else, but when I read your post, it touched me and made me feel like..... REVOLUUUUUUUUUUUUTIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNN!!!!!
"the sad thing about promit's sig is that it lacks intelligence, therefore artifice" - Jello di Caca"There is no flag that is large enough to hide the shame of americaca" -System of a Jello
BaristaBill
BaristaBill
quote:
Gaiiden says: "I program just for the fun of it. "
I say it's stupid to let ppl eat your food that you hunted like that.


Yea, that's it. That is my point Exactly. Good post Hase.

I love programming, but I've also had enough experience in the real world to know that companies will take advantage of you in a heart beat (Even outside the game industry). One of the last companies I worked for pretty much expected me to work average 60-hour weeks. My boss would give me these "Where the hell are you going?" looks at 5:00 when I had worked 8 hours that day. That job, that company, used me. They paid me for 40 hour weeks even though I just about always worked at least 50 hours + and was on call 24hours a day. At least once a week I would get a page at 2:30 AM from the night operator with some kind of problem, and would have to spend the rest of that morning, and next day at work.

About the time my Boss bought a new BMW M3 (Here I am making less than $10 an hour if you counted my over time, that I didn't get paid for and could hardly pay my rent). That was about the time I said “screw you guys”, and found a job with a respectable company that has treated me with respect every day since.

quote:
sure money's cool but what about the enjoyment of game programming? That's where I get my kicks.


I can understand the enjoyment of programming. I’m a programmer at heart, and do lots of side projects “For the fun of it”. I’ve spent days banging code for little more than personal satisfaction. I however can't understand the lackadaisical attitude that it's "OK" to be used by a company because it's a cool job. Yes, game development is a cool gig, but it’s lots and lots of hard work, I’m not oblivious to that. Like I said, I’m willing to dedicate 2 years (Underpaid/overworked). The question is, will it ever pay off? Can I expect, say 4 years down the road to be making a respectable income to support my family? Fun can only get you so far, but my mortgage isn’t paid with “Fun”, it’s paid with money.

Edited by - baristabill on December 22, 2001 11:18:08 AM
Gaiiden
Gaiiden
It's risky and the plain fact is that there are a select few in the industry that get all the attention for what they've done. Not a lot of people will make it that high. I'm not saying I will but the harder you work at it... basically as long as I have enough money to pay the bills, buy myself something every now and then, and still go out on Friday nights, I'll be happy And let's get it straight that this is how I feel, I'm not saying all of you should feel the same, cause we're all gonna have our own feelings about this.
Drew Sikora
Executive Producer
GameDev.net
jellocaca
jellocaca
seems like u guys wanna forget about what I''m saying, coz the truth is too hard to support?

Or if what I say is crap, then be men, and tell me it''s crap!
"the sad thing about promit's sig is that it lacks intelligence, therefore artifice" - Jello di Caca"There is no flag that is large enough to hide the shame of americaca" -System of a Jello
furby100
furby100
Nobody''s playing fair, and noone cares.
Hase
Hase
quote:
Original post by jellocaca
seems like u guys wanna forget about what I''m saying, coz the truth is too hard to support?

Or if what I say is crap, then be men, and tell me it''s crap!


It´s crap, there´s no use whining about how corrupt this and that has become.


If you wan´t something to be different that it is now, YOU have to do something about it. Go and make your revolution. Found a company or better yet, found a publishing house. Sitting on your ass using the bad smell of the industry as an excuse for not creating anything good is just ... sad.

Yeah, the gaming business has grown up a little, yes, it´s become a tougher place to be, but that´s how things go. And at least from what I´ve experienced so far (exclusively european developers) the gaming industry is definitely not a sweatshop. Sure, little of the sales revenue ends up with the developers, but marketing and distribution costs too. Publishers have to turn out a profit too.

And if you love games the way you should then you will be making games even if you give them away for a warm meal. (Which I´m not saying you should... )
Hase
Hase
"Gaiiden says: "I program just for the fun of it. "
I say it''s stupid to let ppl eat your food that you hunted like that. "

..not all the food which you have hunted is edible.
CaptainJester
CaptainJester
Here is the survey that Gamasutra did. They make it seem not so bad, ie average game programmer salary is $62,000 US. One option you can explore is to do what some of the best game developement houses did. Work for a game developer on one or two projects, then take some of the more ambitious people and start your own developement house.

Here is a graph from the survey:


---
Make it work.
Make it fast.


Edited by - CaptainJester on December 27, 2001 11:34:14 AM
"None of us learn in a vacuum; we all stand on the shoulders of giants such as Wirth and Knuth and thousands of others. Lend your shoulders to building the future!" - Michael Abrash[JavaGaming.org][The Java Tutorial][Slick][LWJGL][

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