Elements that I think are important in a puzzle game:

1. Simplicity.
A "complex" puzzle game is not appealing to many people. Tetris was simple, Columns was even simpler. You fit the blocks, once it makes a row, they disappear.

2. Difficulty Ramping.
Puzzle games need to start off slow, teaching you the concepts without too much chance of you messing up. By the time it gets to harder levels, you should know enough to at least BELIEVE you can cope with the difficulty.

3. Surprise.
In all its simplicity, some of the best puzzle games introduce the element of surprise ( or variety ). Witness the "magic block" in Columns, that will match to the colour it hits. In other puzzle-style games, like PopCorn, you have special powerups that do different things. ( Though it could be argued that PopCorn is more of an arcade game than a puzzle game )

4. Short average game length.
The time between starting a puzzle game, and finishing it, should not be too long. A few hours can be a long time for someone looking to "play a quick game." It should get difficult enough, fast enough, so that a game doesn''t last too long.


Now of course, I could have the wrong idea entirely about what you mean by a "puzzle game", Kevin . I hope I don''t.


Give me one more medicated peaceful moment.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~
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Fix shmix. If an RPG is fun for me, it's good enough for me. Ditto every game. Whether it be puzzle or flight sim or adventure or strategy or whatever mixed-up innovative genre they create next.

It's the dissection of what makes it enjoyable that is the core of game design (well, I think it is). Everything else is secondary, but some are more secondary than others like the concept of immersion, and yes, immersion applies to puzzle games.

So let's see what I think of puzzle games...

It must be intuitive. Time of entry must be short. The objective must be intuitive. The interface must be intuitive or be simple enough to pick up via a one page "help" screen.

It must challenge the player without them knowing. When the player plays, the player should only come to the realisation that things are getting harder when they are about to lose the game. This way they "learn without learning" the game. By the way, trial and error is NOT a good method of challenging the player. It trivialises the game into simple guess work.

It should give the player at the endgame/stage (good or bad) positive reinforcement. Every game says "Great" if the player does well. But what happens when the player loses?

Hmmm... that's all I can think of now... wait a sec... thinking about it some more, but it appears that these aspects of puzzle games appear to be the raw core components of all games... hmmm... must think some more...

[updated bit]
Oh, thanks Khawk for the topic. I wish the big guys would talk some more, but as they say, "too busy programming to post"...

Edited by - Jeranon on July 6, 2000 8:45:25 AM

To create a new puzzle game, pretty much the entire game has to be original (otherwise nobody will play it, since it''ll be a ''been there done that'' thing).

(whereas rgps can pretty much just be built with all sorts of elements from other games, with only a few ''original'' concepts mixed in to create a ''new'' product)

I''ve always been too much into rpgs to really get to try many puzzle games...so I can''t really give a list of truly original puzzle games...but...

Anyone here played Disc? I think it was made by a French company. VERY original (as far as I know) and still fun to play even after many years. If you''ve never played it, try to get your hands on it. It is in my opinion a mixture between arcade and puzzle and works very well, both in single player and in two player mode. Even the graphics were pretty nice for that time (I think it''s about 10-15 years old)

Silvermyst

quote:Original post by STVOY

Well Now,

The list of topics for an RPG is almost
endless. Although I think this Forum has
gone through an awful lot of them. But
still, we all love RPG''s here. Puzzle games
don''t really make it these days. Not for
me anyway. BUt it would still be fun to make
one. And I''m sure if it was made by all of us
then it would be quite good.

STVOY

Mega Moh Mine!!

Off topic slightly, but STVOY, why do you justify all your posts? It makes them really annoying to read. Is your screen permanently stuck in 320x240 mode?

http://www.geocities.com/ben32768

I disagree. Puzzle Bobble (arcade) was a variation on Breakout, yet is quite different. I think puzzle games get overlooked because they are seen as "lesser" games to many people - what with the more fancy RPGs, shooters and like around.

Think of those budget games developers, folks.

I think Bomberman was a variation and yet, not. It had puzzle elements, but wasn''t too far into the puzzle realms to be truly classed as a puzzle game (Bomberman also had the swarm technique). It was an action game as well, but wasn''t pure twitch and reflex action to be a true action game. I guess it''s one of those console titles - of which there are many. It''s funny how gameplay sometimes gets better as the hardware becomes the limitation.

I think that if you want to talk RPG "systems", you don''t need a computer. Go create a pen and paper version to playtest and tweak it out with the knowledge that a computer is for just what it is named for - computation.

But if you want to start making games, the "puzzle" ones are the ones to start with, in my opinion. Heck, go read Geoff Howland''s article on how to make games! Sure, it''s not as glamorous, but everyone knows the classic tetris, but not everyone knows the classic doom.

quote:Original post by Eric
At this time I would like to make a broad, un-based, unfair remark about why RPG''s are discussed so much: Much more so than any other genre, RPG''s can be discussed, tweaked, and criticized without anyone ever actually writing a single line of code. So they''re a good topic for newbies, lazy programmers, and wanna-be''s. Yeah, that''s right I said wanna-be''s!

okay okay, I admit it, I''m a wannabee
( Or perhaps that''s because I''m a graphics programmer with a heart for RPGs but no time to actually make one )




Give me one more medicated peaceful moment.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~
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Well Now,

I don''t get it why would my screen
be stuck in 320x240. It''s 800x600.
I don''t want to upset anyone so I
like to justify my posts. If you are
asking why do I always post the same way
and in a block shape, it''s just style I
guess.

STVOY

Mega Moh Mine!!