"Don''t forget we''ll need to manage dozens to thousands of NPC with that system, so that must be fast and efficient."

You wouldn''t necessarily have to do it with every NPC. Obviously, that would be a nice challenge to program, but looking from a gameplay standpoint, would the character really care what the baker was doing on the other side of town while he''s out searching for the king''s daughter? You could set up a priority system; only the NPCs whose behaviors can be seen (or heard maybe) by the character, and all the NPC''s that are directly involved with the PC at the time need to be dealt with first, while those with a lower priority can be simplified. For example, if the baker''s actions aren''t crucial to the game (for the time being at least) he may just bake the bread without worrying about getting the ingredients first. That would allow for very sophisticated NPC actions with current technology, and the player would never know about the shortcuts being taken in the background if they were designed properly.

-Icculus

I haven''t checked out this forum in a while, and I see this idea is still here. Personally, I dont believe in it. ''Needs'' are basic instincts for the NPC to consider. a ''schedule'' is just what the NPC knows he should be doing. Its up to the NPC to decide whether or not he wants to do it now.

Show me an example of how a NPC could decide to skip work one day because he''s in a bad mood without using random numbers.

I said bad mood, not sick-but let''s get a bit mroe specific shall we?

how about, this guy had a run in with another person the previous day at his shop, and the other guy said he would come back the next day to pick up his order. but our shopkeeper doesn''t like this guy at all and doesn''t want to have to talk to him again. Given that, how would a needs system work?

I''m going to guess ahead of you here...if you decide on something like Disliked Persons Avoidance, then exactly how many priorities are you going to have in this queue to cover the many situations that can arise? 16 million? (a slight exaggeration)

As was previously stated, there was an idea about havin NPCs "get a call" so to speak, and they have to perform an event within a certain amount of time. Then it was mentioned that if they ran out of time, the event would force itself (i.e. screw the barber shop, I''ll just go to the bakery for no reason). There is one important thing to remember: the player most likely will not know what the NPC is thinking! So that means that this "forced event" wouldn''t be all that strange at all (although there are circumstances where it could be awkward).

Another possible solution to this problem is to have NPCs redevelop schedules as time progresses. This would be truly amazing for an MMORPG (although I really doubt possible with today''s technology, but who knows). Imagine starting up 3 servers, and letting them progress. With the NPCs semi-randomly recreating their schedules, no world would be anything alike!

Don''t ask me how to do it, it''s just an idea

I have quickly gone over many of the ideas you guys at NPCAI bring up here and in the other posts in this ai forumn and they all are elements that will make the AI in the npc seem somewhat "realistic". Like others however, i do get a little concerned. You have added more and more to an already daunting project and yet you dont seemed concerned what-so-ever about it. Or maybe its in the npcai forumn you guys have(see bottom)

You have plenty of different structures to worrry about as is and yet you continually add "ideas" to an already complex problem: Scripting, npc memory, schedules, message handling between all sorts of structures, reputation, social structures, race and lets not forget the Basic algorithms for ai used now such as path finding, flocking, grouping,... then there is the big npc object structure: i havnt heard anything on that here either...

I really do find some of these talks helpful in understanding what ai should and could do but it would be helpful for me and to plenty of others to understand this more if i could here you guys maybe talk a little more about ..hmm..let me just pick one: npc object structure.

From my understanding of your discussions, the npc object structure will get pretty big. I mean its gonna have race, stats, MEMORY, reputation, status in the world, skills, etc, etc, etc... Could you go into ANY detail of the structure of an npc object so i can get a grasp of a npc object with AI in it?

(i have registered at npcai but i gave up since it looks pretty time consuming to go through each post trying to find info...do you guys have a website posting the more specific structures and design info of your development..it would be easier to look up stuff there then some message board)

aka John M.
Never give up. Never surrender!

I stumbled uppon this thread a little late, but have a few links to add that people may find rather interesting.

first is one at Gamasutra about the general state of current AI. There''s a real gem there though about basics of The Sims:
http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20001101/woodcock_01.htm

Basically they use an idea they''ve dubbed "Smart Terrain". When an NPC needs something(like food), it looks around the environment and the refrigerator advertises it has "food". The food then says it needs heating before it can be ate (to satisfy the NPC''s hunger). The microwave advertises it can heat food.

Combining that with perceptions could do amazing things. (Certain characters may not know that certain services are available by certain devices for specific goals).

Another neat project is called Brainiac Behavior Engine, by Twilight Minds. The basic idea is solution-fitting to NPC''s personality attributes. For instance if an NPC sees another with an item, and they like it a lot, they have a few choices of how they can get it. They could kill them for it, Threaten them, Try to steal it, or offer to buy it. Based on a character''s alignments and opinions, and they''re fondness of the other character, they can choose an appropriate solution.

http://www.twilightminds.com/bbe.html

I''ve played with it a little, and I like the approach a lot. The only problem is the way they''re engine is setup, it doesn''t lend itself to easily have dynamic values for some situations. I can''t think of any examples off hand (been a while since I was playing with it), but I remember needing certain variables assessed dynamically (Alignments of actions, I think).

Hope that''s all of some help!