I don''t remember much about Daggerfall, but I''ve seen other CRPG''s, and the ones that seemed the best were the hybrids - you choose a class, get a set of skills to start with, then get to add additional skills as you play.

Personally, I''d like to do away with classes - they are unrealistic and boring. I want to start the game as a plain old vanilla character, and add the skills or upgrade my skills as I choose. You could always give the player some templates to choose in order to make it quicker for them to jump into the game the first time. But in general, I''d like to see you build your character DURING the game, not BEFORE the game. Which means that you would do little tweaking of your character before starting to play the game.

It does raise an interesting game design problem, though, as suggested. How can we design situations so that the player who is poor at combat will do well in a situation where combat is required, for instance?

Well, first I would want to have a few options as a player. If I suck at combat, then give me some way else out of this mess - don''t force me into combat. For instance, in the game I''m working on we plan on allowing the player to have crew members with skill sets. One of these skills might be xeno communications. In this case, perhaps one way out of an encounter is to use that skill to my advantage - either to talk my way out of the encounter or fool the enemy into thinking I am more powerful than I am. Another way out of the mess might be to hire other ships to help guard me while I travel about the galaxy trading. Let them be skillful at combat - I''m a trader, not a fighter.

Probably got off on a tangent back there, but there''s my two cents.

Now, in a MMORPG, it seems to me that this becomes less of an issue, because if they suck at combat and they can't solve a quest in the game because of it, they move on to the next quest (there is no "ending" to the game, per se) or build up their skills until they CAN solve the quest.

Edited by - Mandrake2112 on January 22, 2001 9:18:41 AM

ok.. ignoring all other posts for now.. i''ll respond to your main post there Naz.
What i see is that Classes have been badly implimented. Even in AD&D you can choose to be a "kit" class. Not a generic thief.. but perhaps an assain. Then you specialize in stealth and poisoned daggers and getting away. Or you could be more like a spy. Strictly stealth and listening.
Or as a ranger you could be a wilderness, beastmaster, or some other such thing. I believe 3rd edition D&D rules are calling these "prestige" classes. In my opinion, this is the thing that CRPGs or MMORPGs (in a much bigger way.. since it gets multiplied 300 times over fast) are WAY lacking. In order to be a mage, and advance a level, ALL mages must get X ammount of skills. There''s no variation, and there''s no specialization. The system i''ve come up with allows for a LOT more than this, without even requiring specialized classes. Of course.. i can''t tell you what this is, but you''ll have a chance to play it.. someday Needless to say, it''s the answer to all my years of personal frustration with games not allowing better classes and more specialized classes.
True that some say you can have "5 ranks of weapon skill" meaning any weapon.. but usually that''s moot.. cause it''s things like magic or such that gets pushed on the backburner. So.. i believe classes CAN be good.. and skills are perfectly capable of being good. Skills are just easier to get away with as a developer without having to think, and still allowing people to get more personalized characters without having to have some stupid "minimum" requirements that''re generic in order to actually gain a level and gain some new power. Who says a level in a guild gives you more power? doesn''t a level in a skill give you more power with the skill? True.. guilds might not teach you certain things.. but.. does that mean you can''t learn anything without the guild? if so.. then how did the guild get started?!

J