Why are you so against the minecraft implementation?, what do you particularly hate about it?, it creates a decent result of volumetric water flow, it's not perfect, but it get's the job done pretty well imo.
Technically, the water was done well for what was around and for what he wanted. I never used water in my minecraft buildings ( unless for flat looking fountains or oceans ) for simple fact that they are not eye appealing. Even if you throw some nifty shader on them they have some serious issues. If you were to find a way to make them not be block based and could have a small curve ( even one that was bent at every 15degree ) that would be more appealing. So no, i dont like minecraft water and I will not be adding anything that is like that to the game! Personal choice... i guess
Eye candy is just the extra, minecraft isn't designed to look nice, water's detail can really be anything you want to do at that point. you claim that the shader mod's don't fix it, but have you actually watched a mod with shaders designed for improving water quality:
at the end of the day, your not exactly being clear about what you want, and contradicting yourself. you want a quality water simulation, but don't want the cost that comes with it. making a water simulation that interacts with your dynamic world is extremely complex, and you are making it more complex by refusing to work with the system you've created.
While that is a valid point, this is how progress is created. Somebody works with a system in place and attempts to make something better that was flawed to begin with. I dont see why you are up on arms about this. The system works for what it was created to be ( in minecraft ) doesnt mean it will work for all games and that it should be in all voxel based games from there on.
I'm not up in arms, and you are overlooking what i had said right before this, you claim you want the water to interact with the world, but don't want to use volume based water systems, you are throwing them out, before you look at them. as i had said, many water simulations use voxel's anyway to represent flow metrics, and geometry interaction, for example:
represen't water pretty solidly, and could most likely be easily adapted to a voxel world.
I don't know how big your voxels are, but i'd probably subdivide them into 8x8x8 cells for water flow systems like in the video i linked to, to create some nice water flow.
edit: also, this would probably serve better in the technical forums, then in the design forums.
I am not really talking about the technical side of the system yet. Rather I am discussing the design aspect of it. Would water work well this way, would players hate the idea of being restricted with oceans... blah blah, the point is to discuss possibilities with the system, not to define how I am going to do it with the code and other aspects. If the mods feel this topic should be moved please do so, but I do not see how it is related to tech. just yet.
You should have made this more clear in your first post, it had sounded like you wanted both technical and design discussion, if it's design, then i'd have to say if I were playing your game, and I can modify the whole world, except the water portion, then I'd feel a bit cheated, that someone was simply too lazy to implement such a mechanic. when they had clearly done so much work to make the world so interactive, at least that's how i'd feel anyway.
what is the intent of the game? would it be centered in survival? in building? or will it be like a "make your own adventure"?
The concept of the game is based on war and land ownership. With the premise that you can build castles and other such things within that war field. That said, the game is created in a way that anybody could mod the game to do whatever they wanted. A server host could make a zombie survival version of the game, or a survive on the island for 20 nights mod, or whatever they wanted really. We have created the game 100% modular. The game I will be releasing is based off of land ownership and war.
it seems like water would be a great fit, if it's a war type game, moats and such things come to mind.
eg2. player found a ocean and removed a block from the border. a new block of water is created in that border and only this block loses some volume. basing this volume loss on the number of source blocks right next to the flowing one. the more source blocks near, the less volume the flowing water loses. if the flowing water has the volume of a source block, then it becomes a source block and no more loses volume.
i expect this thoughts help at least a little and that my bad English doesn't screw my reply...
No no , your post is very helpful. The very reason I posted here was to get some ideas and throw some stuff around. I did not have any issues with your English either; then again my wife is pinay so... i tend to understand broken English! Either way, your post was very good. Ill draw up some ideas i had previously and see what you think of them. My overall goal for water is something that doesn't look like trash. I don't need it to be fully dynamic and I dont need it to be the most amazing thing in the world... but I would rather have two systems of water ( one for land based water that could be played with like volumes ) and one for oceans that would be more static and harder to manipulate. I do not think this is out of the realm of possibility I just need to find the happy medium solution.
I understand your want to use a simpler solution for ocean's, but I think it means doing twice the work, as mito said, if you want to use a static ocean, that isn't hard, another potential option for them is to just mark those particular blocks as ocean blocks, and they can't be modified. still it's all about if you want to go that particular route or not.
Edited by slicer4ever, 26 July 2012 - 01:49 PM.