This may be different for arbitrary aliens, but a-study-that-I-pulled-out-of-my-ass said that cheerfulness/depression are roughly 90% disposition and 10% circumstances in the long term. So an entire suicidally depressed species.... sounds like a Darwinian fail just for starters. Unless it's a recent thing which is reinforced by culture/religion and those in power, it sounds very unlikely and also unlikely to cause much sympathy. It's like that friend who complains every day, even if they win the lottery.
In general I think it's a topic worth exploring, but if you overdo the darkness it could either come across as hamming it up, or reinforce the attitude of depressed people who think it's not all worth it. Please carefully think what message your work is saying when touching on such a sensitive topic.
Suicide as a major subject in my games. What do you think?
I'm a little bit confused on how this plot deals with suicide. In the first game it's simply a background note--the main character's parents both comitted suicide. How integral are they to the main storyline? After all, the main character from game one doesn't commit suicide, he's simply murdered. I do like the idea of the character being forced to commit such an outrageous act, but this leads me to ponder Orson Scott Card's series beginning with Ender's Game, and I think an audience would be more intrigued with how the main character deals with his own horrific acts (and not the corrupt millitary).
In your second game, the one in which a PC actually commits suicide, you've presented us with an entirely different conundrum. Character B is psycopathic, and finds joy in using his spaceship to destroy things (which I can sort of understand as a way of using entertainment to distract from the constant emptiness of depression). Maybe with more details I could come to understand this character better, but as it stands he/she simply seems deranged. It's like trying to relate to someone who brutally murders their family and then commits suicide.
I tend to agree with Sunandshadow that it feels like you're sort of alienating your audience right from the start, but I believe you misunderstood her point. The issue is not that your characters are aliens--people can relate to all sorts of things just fine (Avatar, Wall-E, and, my favorite example, Journey). In Journey the characters are only vaguely humanoid, and their technology is fantastically magical, but the reflection of our own world is obvious (even without a single line of text). Journey also addresses the idea of death and rebirth to an extent (which seems like what your game is really about, the suicide is merely incidental). I believe what will really alienate your audience is just how much focus you seem to want to place on these horrific planets--they're nightmare worlds, of course everyone who lives on them wants to die. Yes, our world is certainly tragic, but only the blindest cynic would consider it as hopeless as these mirror worlds you have suggested.
The concept of making suicide a part of the game is interesting, certainly, but if you really want to get something relatable that will make your audience think (instead of simply having the chance to offend them) you need to tone down the absolute despair. Make a character your audience can sympathise with.
I think you should also consider what comes after suicide. To me it sounds like you are punishing your characters, raging against someone who is willing to give in. Why can't suicide be the unsettling blackness? Isn't the fact that your character chose suicide sad enough without them having to fall into Dante's Inferno?
In your second game, the one in which a PC actually commits suicide, you've presented us with an entirely different conundrum. Character B is psycopathic, and finds joy in using his spaceship to destroy things (which I can sort of understand as a way of using entertainment to distract from the constant emptiness of depression). Maybe with more details I could come to understand this character better, but as it stands he/she simply seems deranged. It's like trying to relate to someone who brutally murders their family and then commits suicide.
I tend to agree with Sunandshadow that it feels like you're sort of alienating your audience right from the start, but I believe you misunderstood her point. The issue is not that your characters are aliens--people can relate to all sorts of things just fine (Avatar, Wall-E, and, my favorite example, Journey). In Journey the characters are only vaguely humanoid, and their technology is fantastically magical, but the reflection of our own world is obvious (even without a single line of text). Journey also addresses the idea of death and rebirth to an extent (which seems like what your game is really about, the suicide is merely incidental). I believe what will really alienate your audience is just how much focus you seem to want to place on these horrific planets--they're nightmare worlds, of course everyone who lives on them wants to die. Yes, our world is certainly tragic, but only the blindest cynic would consider it as hopeless as these mirror worlds you have suggested.
The concept of making suicide a part of the game is interesting, certainly, but if you really want to get something relatable that will make your audience think (instead of simply having the chance to offend them) you need to tone down the absolute despair. Make a character your audience can sympathise with.
I think you should also consider what comes after suicide. To me it sounds like you are punishing your characters, raging against someone who is willing to give in. Why can't suicide be the unsettling blackness? Isn't the fact that your character chose suicide sad enough without them having to fall into Dante's Inferno?
I'm thinking you need to do one game instead of two or three. Aside from being a recipe for not actually getting anything done, multiple stories or one epic sprawling story is a symptom that you haven't nailed what your story is about. Work on getting to the core of what's thematically important about suicide for your purposes. You need to cut stuff out that's distracting and isn't core. In a screenplay for a film, for example, the screenwriter usually has only 90 minutes or so to make his points. So he's gotta choose the best points, cut down on the complexity, and not get lost in the delivery.
What are the consequences of suicide? From an atheist perspective, you don't get to be alive anymore. There isn't some purgatory to keep on angsting about your problems. There's nothing wrong with writing about purgatories, but you should probably be conscious of how that will affect the suspension of disbelief for some members of the audience. Similarly, some religious people believe you go to heaven or hell. Others believe that you reincarnate. If that's what they believe, then they come to your work with those preconceptions. How will you deal with the consequence of death? What is important for you as an author to say about that? Answering those questions, probably gives you 50% of what your story needs to do right there.
The other big obvious one is, what are the realities of depression? That's a difficult subject, because lots of people don't like to watch films that make them depressed. Not sure if the same problem exists in games. Can a game make you depressed, if you're actively doing something in the game? Bored, certainly, but depressed? You don't have to write a depression simulator, but it'll be interesting to see how you deal with the realities of depression, in a medium where most people think you're supposed to be having "fun."
Now I will recommend a specific film that's about a suicide, reincarnation, and a lot of other weirdness: Uncle Boonmee Who Can Recall His Past Lives . If you can figure out where there's a game in that sort of thing, well, you'd have something.
What are the consequences of suicide? From an atheist perspective, you don't get to be alive anymore. There isn't some purgatory to keep on angsting about your problems. There's nothing wrong with writing about purgatories, but you should probably be conscious of how that will affect the suspension of disbelief for some members of the audience. Similarly, some religious people believe you go to heaven or hell. Others believe that you reincarnate. If that's what they believe, then they come to your work with those preconceptions. How will you deal with the consequence of death? What is important for you as an author to say about that? Answering those questions, probably gives you 50% of what your story needs to do right there.
The other big obvious one is, what are the realities of depression? That's a difficult subject, because lots of people don't like to watch films that make them depressed. Not sure if the same problem exists in games. Can a game make you depressed, if you're actively doing something in the game? Bored, certainly, but depressed? You don't have to write a depression simulator, but it'll be interesting to see how you deal with the realities of depression, in a medium where most people think you're supposed to be having "fun."
Now I will recommend a specific film that's about a suicide, reincarnation, and a lot of other weirdness: Uncle Boonmee Who Can Recall His Past Lives . If you can figure out where there's a game in that sort of thing, well, you'd have something.
Author
Sorry for the late replies, Ive been busy with other things.
Darwin only studied species on our planet, a different planet would have completely different types of species.
Yeah I have left out details of the plot that ties into things better. I didnt want the text to be mountains big like the sticky post said to avoid.
Well thats the point, it is a different planet. Of course thinking of this kind of world came from an outlook on life here, but its a different planet with a different type of species on it.
Ill give another detail about the species that I didnt before. The way they reproduce is painful, no bliss in the end comes from copulating. They dont get the simple pleasures of sexuality or love like we do.
Again, I didnt tell the plot of the 3rd game because I didnt know how many people would reply if they just saw a whole bunch of text at first.
In the third game the main character makes it back to his reality and goes to his planet to destroy it. Thats skimming that part of the plot, but he does t least get some joy in the end. Him going from reality to reality in the ship is causing dimensional tears which will cause the end of existence. Bleak storyline, but I hope to make up for that with the gameplay.
The games wont have a big budget, so Ill have to devide the storyline in to 3 parts and make each after the other. The story is sad, but the game play will be good shoot em up action and other types as well. I dont want to make a game thats depressing and boring to play.
Im not trying to really make a religious commentary, and Im not trying to make a medium where people will go to so they can reinforce their outlooks on things while being all smiles and complacent. Ill check out that film.
sounds like a Darwinian fail just for starters.
Darwin only studied species on our planet, a different planet would have completely different types of species.
Maybe with more details I could come to understand this character better, but as it stands he/she simply seems deranged. It's like trying to relate to someone who brutally murders their family and then commits suicide.
Yeah I have left out details of the plot that ties into things better. I didnt want the text to be mountains big like the sticky post said to avoid.
I believe what will really alienate your audience is just how much focus you seem to want to place on these horrific planets--they're nightmare worlds, of course everyone who lives on them wants to die. Yes, our world is certainly tragic, but only the blindest cynic would consider it as hopeless as these mirror worlds you have suggested.
Well thats the point, it is a different planet. Of course thinking of this kind of world came from an outlook on life here, but its a different planet with a different type of species on it.
Ill give another detail about the species that I didnt before. The way they reproduce is painful, no bliss in the end comes from copulating. They dont get the simple pleasures of sexuality or love like we do.
I think you should also consider what comes after suicide. To me it sounds like you are punishing your characters, raging against someone who is willing to give in. Why can't suicide be the unsettling blackness? Isn't the fact that your character chose suicide sad enough without them having to fall into Dante's Inferno?
Again, I didnt tell the plot of the 3rd game because I didnt know how many people would reply if they just saw a whole bunch of text at first.
In the third game the main character makes it back to his reality and goes to his planet to destroy it. Thats skimming that part of the plot, but he does t least get some joy in the end. Him going from reality to reality in the ship is causing dimensional tears which will cause the end of existence. Bleak storyline, but I hope to make up for that with the gameplay.
I'm thinking you need to do one game instead of two or three.
The games wont have a big budget, so Ill have to devide the storyline in to 3 parts and make each after the other. The story is sad, but the game play will be good shoot em up action and other types as well. I dont want to make a game thats depressing and boring to play.
If that's what they believe, then they come to your work with those preconceptions. How will you deal with the consequence of death?
Im not trying to really make a religious commentary, and Im not trying to make a medium where people will go to so they can reinforce their outlooks on things while being all smiles and complacent. Ill check out that film.
The incidence of depression in the 1st world is up to 25% from 20% a few years ago and still rising. It's a mainstream disorder these days, just like obesity. You're not far off calling Humanity a Darwinian fail.
a-study-that-I-pulled-out-of-my-ass said that cheerfulness/depression are roughly 90% disposition and 10% circumstances in the long term. So an entire suicidally depressed species.... sounds like a Darwinian fail just for starters. Unless it's a recent thing which is reinforced by culture
I hope my comment didn't fall into the internet curse of lack of context. I'm not minimizing depression etc. I just mean that the creature that is too depressed to run away from the lion gets eaten. Depression as we understand it is a pretty negative trait for natural selection, unless it's inextricably linked to being a genius, superhumanly strong, etc. One can imagine an arbitrarily odd situation where a suicidal nature is a positive, e.g. once an individual is past breeding age it ends it all to reduce competition for food, or to kamikaze kill predators, or where death is the only way to breed. But in general I would say that survival is most likely to happen if one wants to survive. A society can support the weight of a minority who are depressed or unwell, but if the overwhelming majority want to end it all... I don't see how anything would ever get done.Why the entire society wouldn't celebrate "suicide sunday".
Hello,
I think it's great that you're trying to create a game with more depth.
Especially that you're not just using such a topic to shock.
However one thing you should be aware of is copycat suicide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copycat_suicide).
There are some guidelines to reduce this effect.
I'm not saying you shouldn't make your game or change it dramatically. Just be aware of it.
I think it's great that you're trying to create a game with more depth.
Especially that you're not just using such a topic to shock.
However one thing you should be aware of is copycat suicide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copycat_suicide).
There are some guidelines to reduce this effect.
I'm not saying you shouldn't make your game or change it dramatically. Just be aware of it.
You have to remember that successful stories are formulaic. there can be no action without conflict. if suicide is the action, what exactly is the conflict? what is happening that is causing the depression? As other people above have already stated, a world where people are recreationally committing suicide is not relatable. It would help if you provided some context to the story. One of the biggest factors that effects the tone of the story is the setting. Is it a dystopic world? a world full of poverty and disease? is there a virus running rampant or a crazy abusive dictatorship? Even if you are on a completely foreign planet where the aliens walk with their hair and feed on gas produced by toxic rivers of mercury, the setting is still important.
As crazy as it sounds, suicide is actually a very dynamic plot device. Suicide is often used as a form of self-sacrifice, however i'm guessing that's not exactly what you had in mind. It can also be used to enforce a point or to slam an exclamation point on a story arc. As referenced by Bioshock, Andrew Ryan's "would you kindly" sequence, while it was technically an assisted suicide, it was a hugely successful plot twist, because the action dramatically shifted your perception of the story. Another form of suicide is the ever popular "going down with guns blazing" where the protagonist knowingly faces unbeatable odds fully knowing he has no chance. It's part of the "die on my feet rather then live on my knees" or the "i know i'm going down, so i'm gonna take as many of you with me" mentality. As referenced by the end of the anime Cowboy Bebop.
I am a very strong advocate of killing off my characters in very dramatic ways, however i live by the philosophy that no death is wasted. when a named character is killed, or dies purely for the sake of gratuitous death, the action is empty and has no power. As mentioned above by another poster, the suicide should have some sort of consequence to give it any meaning. Or if you choose not to go down that path, you need to make the suicide so memorable that the player is the one that needs to feel something. You could make the game about the player interacting with a physical manifestation of it's depression eventually leading to suicide, in which case the depression itself is the conflict, rather than the result of it's surroundings.
some food for thought.
As crazy as it sounds, suicide is actually a very dynamic plot device. Suicide is often used as a form of self-sacrifice, however i'm guessing that's not exactly what you had in mind. It can also be used to enforce a point or to slam an exclamation point on a story arc. As referenced by Bioshock, Andrew Ryan's "would you kindly" sequence, while it was technically an assisted suicide, it was a hugely successful plot twist, because the action dramatically shifted your perception of the story. Another form of suicide is the ever popular "going down with guns blazing" where the protagonist knowingly faces unbeatable odds fully knowing he has no chance. It's part of the "die on my feet rather then live on my knees" or the "i know i'm going down, so i'm gonna take as many of you with me" mentality. As referenced by the end of the anime Cowboy Bebop.
I am a very strong advocate of killing off my characters in very dramatic ways, however i live by the philosophy that no death is wasted. when a named character is killed, or dies purely for the sake of gratuitous death, the action is empty and has no power. As mentioned above by another poster, the suicide should have some sort of consequence to give it any meaning. Or if you choose not to go down that path, you need to make the suicide so memorable that the player is the one that needs to feel something. You could make the game about the player interacting with a physical manifestation of it's depression eventually leading to suicide, in which case the depression itself is the conflict, rather than the result of it's surroundings.
some food for thought.
You could also use suicide as a sort of game mechanic, you could play with the idea of rebirth, or if you're so inclined you could have each death strengthening the madness or depression of the character
This is just my opinion, and though it may be a strong one, I'm not trying to offend you; just asking that you take more serious consideration than what I've read so far.
I think you should reevaluate suicide as a major plot device.
From what I've read in this topic, suicide is being used to tie up lose ends, not as a real aspect of the game, a plot device, or even handled with a bit of civility or respect.
Take Mr.NoName's second game for example. The ghost of the player controls the ship to destroy a world "for fun" and then "commits suicide to end his misery." It seems rather contradictory and in bad taste. If the player or even the ghost is in control of their actions on the ship and "having fun" why would they then drop into a deep depression and make the choice to end it all?
Break it into a more base level. If you were playing Space Invaders and after you beat the level, you told the player to walk away and end the game instead of continuing. I think would send conflicting messages to the player and also if you just end up "rewarding" them with suicide, you're glamorizing suicide, which many, including myself, take offence at. It may get you some shock fame, but that fades and you won't be taken seriously ever after that.
As someone that has experienced lose due to suicide, I know very well that it's a touchy topic and one that many are afraid to approach. And though I feel that suicide and mental illness are topics that need to be talked about and even explored in interactive media to help spread awareness, I think it needs to be at a much more sincere level than what Mr.NoName has purposed.
If someone makes a choice to use suicide as a serious part of a game, then I think it should be handled with respect and in depth, real knowledge on the subject. If you plan on having any real future in the video game industry, something that is handled so poorly could be such a blemish that you never work on anything in any real capacity again.
I think you should reevaluate suicide as a major plot device.
From what I've read in this topic, suicide is being used to tie up lose ends, not as a real aspect of the game, a plot device, or even handled with a bit of civility or respect.
Take Mr.NoName's second game for example. The ghost of the player controls the ship to destroy a world "for fun" and then "commits suicide to end his misery." It seems rather contradictory and in bad taste. If the player or even the ghost is in control of their actions on the ship and "having fun" why would they then drop into a deep depression and make the choice to end it all?
Break it into a more base level. If you were playing Space Invaders and after you beat the level, you told the player to walk away and end the game instead of continuing. I think would send conflicting messages to the player and also if you just end up "rewarding" them with suicide, you're glamorizing suicide, which many, including myself, take offence at. It may get you some shock fame, but that fades and you won't be taken seriously ever after that.
As someone that has experienced lose due to suicide, I know very well that it's a touchy topic and one that many are afraid to approach. And though I feel that suicide and mental illness are topics that need to be talked about and even explored in interactive media to help spread awareness, I think it needs to be at a much more sincere level than what Mr.NoName has purposed.
If someone makes a choice to use suicide as a serious part of a game, then I think it should be handled with respect and in depth, real knowledge on the subject. If you plan on having any real future in the video game industry, something that is handled so poorly could be such a blemish that you never work on anything in any real capacity again.
This topic is closed to new replies.
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