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Would You Live on Mars?


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#81 Alpha_ProgDes   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 4688

Posted 08 December 2012 - 11:50 PM

Just because it is nothing like Star Trek does not make it less appealing to me. After all I am quite happy in Tokyo so far.

I would think living in Japan would be closer to Star Trek even when compared to America.
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#82 szecs   Members   -  Reputation: 2142

Posted 09 December 2012 - 12:46 AM

The scenery, red skies, 2 moons, and gravity will lengthen my interest in the place but will eventually lose luster.

You do realise that you can't actually see the two moons from Mars. They seem just to faint starts on the night sky from Mars.

Sorry to crush your dreams :P

Edited by szecs, 09 December 2012 - 12:49 AM.


#83 L. Spiro   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 13595

Posted 09 December 2012 - 12:56 AM

The scenery, red skies, 2 moons, and gravity will lengthen my interest in the place but will eventually lose luster.

You do realise that you can't actually see the two moons from Mars. They seem just to faint starts on the night sky from Mars.

Sorry to crush your dreams :P

WHAT YOU SAY !!!


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#84 Art Whiz   Members   -  Reputation: 194

Posted 09 December 2012 - 09:36 AM

You do realise that you can't actually see the two moons from Mars. They seem just to faint starts on the night sky from Mars.

Sorry to crush your dreams Posted Image


Szecs, you CAN see the moons. They are a little smaller and dimmer than our Moon appears from Earth (Phobos is 1/3, Deimos is even smaller), but you can see them. Unless the colonists are going to live on the polar regions of Mars, in which case they won't see them.

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#85 szecs   Members   -  Reputation: 2142

Posted 09 December 2012 - 10:12 AM


You do realise that you can't actually see the two moons from Mars. They seem just to faint starts on the night sky from Mars.

Sorry to crush your dreams Posted Image


Szecs, you CAN see the moons. They are a little smaller and dimmer than our Moon appears from Earth (Phobos is 1/3, Deimos is even smaller), but you can see them. Unless the colonists are going to live on the polar regions of Mars, in which case they won't see them.


Hmm. Yup. I remembered wrong. Sorry for the misinformation.

#86 tstrimple   Prime Members   -  Reputation: 1718

Posted 09 December 2012 - 12:20 PM

Hmm. Yup. I remembered wrong. Sorry for the misinformation.


You're using the internet wrong. This is where you're supposed to double down, and then throw insults at TheGuardian.

#87 Luckless   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1799

Posted 09 December 2012 - 05:12 PM

Any colony on Mars is likely to be built under ground anyway due to increased surface radiation, and the vastly increased number of impacts from space (due to a lesser atmosphere and minor magnetic field to protect it)... So really you are unlikely to see the moons from under 20+ feet of rock. That, and polar regions sound like a good place to settle anyway due to probable amounts of water.

But they also are really weird moons. Poked around to refresh my memory, the smaller of the moons looks about 1/3rd as wide as ours, is faint, and travels 'backwards' across the sky, and the larger moon looks around 1/12th that of our moon, and travels very fast. Compared to other objects in the night sky, they look more like enlarged planets or really big stars than they would look like our moon.
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#88 Tournicoti   Prime Members   -  Reputation: 683

Posted 10 December 2012 - 12:28 PM

I don't think I would like to live on Mars because I prefer chocolate personnaly.

#89 Anri   Members   -  Reputation: 597

Posted 11 December 2012 - 11:04 AM

I would love to get away from it all! ^_^

Cue "The Greatest adventure" by Glenn Yarbrough...

#90 KingofNoobs   Members   -  Reputation: 301

Posted 19 December 2012 - 09:15 AM

Sometimes, a song speaks louder than words:

I wonder as I wander...

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#91 samoth   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 4778

Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:37 AM

vastly increased number of impacts from space (due to a lesser atmosphere and minor magnetic field to protect it)... So really you are unlikely to see the moons from under 20+ feet of rock.

Make that 200 feet, if you plan for (minor) impacts. 20 feet of rock just evaporate on an impact (for anything much larger than a millimeter of diameter or so). As there's practically no atmosphere, something coming from space will have more or less the same speed and mass upon impact as in space (much different from e.g. on Earth).

Edited by samoth, 19 December 2012 - 10:37 AM.


#92 megabaki   Members   -  Reputation: 126

Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:15 PM

Any colony on Mars is likely to be built under ground anyway due to increased surface radiation, and the vastly increased number of impacts from space (due to a lesser atmosphere and minor magnetic field to protect it)... So really you are unlikely to see the moons from under 20+ feet of rock.


Built by who? Dust devils? Nobody is building nothing underground. There are no building materials, tools, or machinery on Mars.
There are no workers on Mars. They're sending ready-to-use living modules. No return ticket home.

Yes, I'm sure there will be constant danger from solar flares and solar radiation. Your life source will be dependent on
machines to produce clean oxygen, 24 hours a day. If all electronics get zapped by the sun, you're a goner.

And it takes 7 months to get to Mars. It's not like you're a satellite that can shut down for 7 months and wake up again.
All electronics need to stay on and functioning throughout the entire trip. Constant danger from solar flares.
May not even survive the trip there.

#93 Oberon_Command   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1899

Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:18 PM

There are no building materials, tools, or machinery on Mars.
There are no workers on Mars. They're sending ready-to-use living modules. No return ticket home.


At first. I'd imagine that if colonization took off, the colonists would start using local materials for things. Mars has mineral deposits just as Earth does. As for tools, machinery, and workers... send them, and use the Earth-imported tools, machinery, and workers to make more tools, machinery, and workers.

#94 Hodgman   Moderators   -  Reputation: 30385

Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:42 PM

Yeah by the sounds of it, this group would be sending a ready-made "space station" type set-up to the Martian surface.

However, as the Planetary Resources people pointed out when they started their asteroid mining venture, we've already got entire robot colonies on the bottom of the ocean, where no man has ever tread, automatically excavating and drilling and building things.

If we wanted to build a mine and a factory and an underground habitat on Mars, we've got the technology to build all that without actually sending any humans to do the work, who can be sent once it's all up and running.

#95 megabaki   Members   -  Reputation: 126

Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:46 PM

I don't see anyone digging underground tunnels or living in caves in Mars.
To build an underground complex, the entire area needs to be excavated with machinery that
can move tons of dirt. Nobody is sending a nuclear-powered backhoe to Mars anytime soon.
You also need a strong foundation for support. Nobody is mixing and pouring cement on Mars either.
Structures are then moved into place, and the entire area is buried again. Even with
robots, this is simply not pratical.

#96 Luckless   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1799

Posted 20 December 2012 - 06:42 PM

Even with robots, this is simply not pratical.


Really? I've been a shift supervisor on a test bed mine in Africa a little over a year ago. Our section of the mine was all robotic, and completely hands off. I haven't left Canada in over 15 years.

You don't need to build 'strong foundations' when you are carving something out of solid bedrock, as it already IS a strong foundation. You will seal the walls so they are air tight, and most likely build a thin-skin building inside with an air buffer so you get a dual layer seal against full leaks, but very little concrete or concrete like material is required.

In all likely hood you would build your colony as a mine. Remove the material you want to use for something else, and a little extra as needed for space, and then expand living areas behind your face. (Or wait till a run in the mine is complete, then expand it into a living area. Depends on exact time tables and whether or not you can afford to wait the years it would take to 'finish' a full mine section to the point where you want to sink a second shaft to use as primary access.

There were no European Carpenters and Miners when Europeans first came to North America. We didn't know of any mines, or houses that would protect us from the elements. Yet they still came here. And honestly when you consider the risks, and the number of people who died on successful missions as compared to those who have died in accidents in space flight, I would argue that crossing the Atlantic in small wooden boats several hundred years ago was far more dangerous than a trip to Mars would be today. It isn't safe, but the risks are a lot better understood and manageable than early settlers faced.
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#97 megabaki   Members   -  Reputation: 126

Posted 23 December 2012 - 09:58 PM

In all likely hood you would build your colony as a mine.

 

I disagree.  The most important resource on Mars will be water, and you don't have to be a
Starcraft fanatic to know you build your base near the resources.  Nobody will be living in
a mine where there is no or little water to be found.  Just because our ancestors lived in caves,

doesn't mean we have to.  It's the 21th century.  We don't have to live like rats anymore.



#98 Art Whiz   Members   -  Reputation: 194

Posted 24 December 2012 - 01:10 AM

Yet, it's likely that a colony on Mars would be built underground to avoid surface radiation: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn22520-mars-is-safe-from-radiation--but-the-trip-there-isnt.html

 

Merry Christmas everyone! ;)


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#99 megabaki   Members   -  Reputation: 126

Posted 24 December 2012 - 05:45 AM

Yet, it's likely that a colony on Mars would be built underground to avoid surface radiation: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn22520-mars-is-safe-from-radiation--but-the-trip-there-isnt.html

 

 

Dartnell suggests that a base or colony on Mars could be built underground to avoid surface radiation. Or, with enough advance warning, astronauts could retreat to protective shelters during a flare.

 

 

"Could be".  Or... use "protective shelters" instead.

 

Nobody is arguing that underground bases can't protect against radiation.  I just don't see them as being pratical
on a large scale.  If anyone is digging on Mars, you'll dig your own with a shovel.  It'll be a rabbit-size
bunker hole where you can hide from solar flares. 

 

And it'll just be a hole in the ground.  You'll still be in your spacesuit.  So if a blackout knocks
out all of the power, you'll be safe from radiation, but with little oxygen left.  But no problem,
you've already dug your own grave.  Nothing else left to do except die.


Edited by megabaki, 24 December 2012 - 06:29 AM.


#100 L. Spiro   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 13595

Posted 24 December 2012 - 07:20 AM

Sometimes, a song speaks louder than words:
First-off, what the-
Talk about nostalgia overflow. I was 3 years and 4 months old when I watched this episode of Sesame Street.
You can’t imagine how influential this one song has been in my life. To be quite frank if I were never able to live in space (or on another planet or moon) then my next choice would be under the deep ocean. At least until I was 8. I soon learned of the dangers in living under the ocean, and ironic as it may seem there are more dangers in living under the ocean than in living on Mars.
My main question is though—
My memory allows me to see every nook and cranny of my past, but only when it is mentioned. How in the hell did you remember this off the top of your head?

 
Make that 200 feet, if you plan for (minor) impacts. 20 feet of rock just evaporate on an impact (for anything much larger than a millimeter of diameter or so). As there's practically no atmosphere, something coming from space will have more or less the same speed and mass upon impact as in space (much different from e.g. on Earth).
Actually only 16.5 feet is necessary.
Asteroidal impacts are actually capable of penetrating deeper, but the chances of those asteroids hitting the base are only 5 times higher than the chances of an asteroid hitting a human on Earth. The calculated risk is that we ignore asteroidal impacts. Feel free to laugh at us if our base does get hit, but you must then also welcome 10 generations of shame upon you, your children, their children, etc., if it does not happen.
 
Any colony on Mars is likely to be built under ground anyway due to increased surface radiation, and the vastly increased number of impacts from space (due to a lesser atmosphere and minor magnetic field to protect it)... So really you are unlikely to see the moons from under 20+ feet of rock.
The colony will be under 16.5 feet of Mars dust. We are not confined to these spaces as such would be our demise. The Mars suits serve many purposes and seeings the moons is one side-effect of this.
 
 
Built by who? Dust devils? Nobody is building nothing underground.
Actually most of it will be under-ground.
 
 
I don't see anyone digging underground tunnels or living in caves in Mars.
To build an underground complex, the entire area needs to be excavated with machinery that
can move tons of dirt.
Really?
Because last I checked Mars has a gravity equal to 37.828746177370030581039755351682% that of Earth’s, and an outer layer that is essentially composed of red cigarette smoke.
Digging is actually the easy part. The hard part is avoiding cave-ins, but that won’t be a problem with the supplies that will be sent.
 
 
I disagree.  The most important resource on Mars will be water
As such the bases will be positioned near the equator (just north). There are basically 2 (maybe 3) hotpots (we will know more accurately once we get there) where water can be exhumed from underground by boiling it from under the surface and collecting it as it evaporates.
Not only has there already proved to be so much water there that we can survive, there is even so much water that some of it can be turned into air for breathing, which is basically our way of getting oxygen.


Honestly as someone with so many opinions I have to wonder why you know so little.
Do try to do more research, won’t you?


L. Spiro

Edited by L. Spiro, 24 December 2012 - 07:25 AM.

It is amazing how often people try to be unique, and yet they are always trying to make others be like them. - L. Spiro 2011
I spent most of my life learning the courage it takes to go out and get what I want. Now that I have it, I am not sure exactly what it is that I want. - L. Spiro 2013
I went to my local Subway once to find some guy yelling at the staff. When someone finally came to take my order and asked, “May I help you?”, I replied, “Yeah, I’ll have one asshole to go.”
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