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building/making a game: where to start?


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#1 zircnambi   Members   -  Reputation: 111

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 03:23 PM

I'm new to this forum and I think this is where I should present myself for what my doubts are.

 

Firstly, I have a bit knowledge of OOP such as C# and Java (new to java and studiyng it) and have a basic idea for a game.

 

My concerns about making/creating a game is not related with programming languages. 

 

Secondly, I will explain what I want:

 

    1. I always wanted to create a mmorpg (I know this consumes a lot of time, knowledge and pain :P), or at least playing around with it [                         programming my own game + playing it ] for self-knowledge purposes.

    2. I simply want to start from scratch, making my own errors & learning

    3. To begin with, the game will be a basic stand-alone RPG (character choice [or at least the commonly «Warrior»], a test map, skills, inventory, and lately NPC's plus other relative RPG stuff)

 

I have read some info but I have't found what exactly I want: I want to know where to start making a game apart of knowing programming languages.

All I want is something like teaches me how to start game planning, create all the game logic, game engine, game loop, I mean, the basic structure of RPG game (tutorials/sources/free books for JAVA would be great).

 

I might sound a bit confusing, but I hope someone understand what I really want.

 

Thanks in advance for any response



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#2 Tutorial Doctor   Members   -  Reputation: 990

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 05:58 PM

If you want to start out using the Unity3D engine, the Walker Boys have the best tutorials on it:

 

http://www.walkerboystudio.com/

 

They go from beginning to end on making a game in Unity. They even make a mario style game. They do the scripting and everything. They even have art tutorials. 

 

Everything you learn there can be applied elsewhere. 

 

If you want tips on level design you can try The World of Level Design 

http://worldofleveldesign.com/

 

Hope this helps a bit. 


They call me the Tutorial Doctor.


#3 Godmil   Members   -  Reputation: 711

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 07:39 PM

Doesn't 3D Buzz have a unity tutorial series for making an MMO? May be worth checking out.



#4 ankhd   Members   -  Reputation: 937

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 08:34 PM

ok.

 

get graphics up and running so you can render things(Some graphic API). also meshes shaders all that

 

set up sound so you can play sound and stream sounds(your fab sound API).

 

design UI system dialogboxes and things.

 

work out what terrain type you want to use .

 

create terrain get working renders culls you will need to make tools Eg map editor.

 

find data structure to hold game objects for fast removal and incerting based on your game type.

 

make particle systems get this working. fire, water, bombs.

 

 

design how your objects will use graphics.

 

work out a rendering system .

 

processing system(where all objects get updated).

 

work out motion component.

 

work out what type of weapons are needed get them working make them a component and not hard coded(fire type projectiles or straight motion)

 

create game objects.

 

just some basic steps I follow when working on my RTS games just to get them up and running the you refine things.



#5 3Ddreamer   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2645

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 10:31 PM

Hi,

 

 

Take a look at jMonkey, XNA, MonoGame/Mono, and Unity 3D. SharpDX is worth a look, too. http://www.sharpdx.org/about/features

 

Once you settle on a game engine, then assemble a workflow pipeline of software and application to go to work.

 

By the way, I prefer Eclipse for Java and Visual Studio for C#.  Deciding on an art creation software such as Blender (among many others) early and getting your coding set for importing that art work in a 2D and/or 3D file format is high on your priority.

 

You need basics on program instruction early, too, or you will get lost in the jungle of information.  Best to stay on the beaten, proven paths for beginners.


Edited by 3Ddreamer, 16 November 2013 - 10:36 PM.

Personal life and your private thoughts always effect your career. Research is the intellectual backbone of game development and the first order. Version Control is crucial for full management of applications and software.  The better the workflow pipeline, then the greater the potential output for a quality game.  Completing projects is the last but finest order.

 

by Clinton, 3Ddreamer


#6 zircnambi   Members   -  Reputation: 111

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 02:48 PM

Thanks all for the replies. I will soon check every advice you gave me.



#7 zircnambi   Members   -  Reputation: 111

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 03:07 PM

another thing... remember the pokemon gold, blue, red games for gameboy?

 

How hard could be making a RPG similar to that? Should I use tilemaps or there is anything better? I read that I should start with 2D and then try 3D



#8 Aspirer   Members   -  Reputation: 544

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 05:56 PM

lol, I remember when I came to the forums with dreams and aspirations of an MMORPG for my first game...

People had the decency to shatter my dreams with the reality of "You'll never manage to make a successful, complete MMORPG on your own."

 

Now we link them to MMO tutorials...

 

I blame Obama.

 

 

 

That aside:


My concerns about making/creating a game is not related with programming languages...
All I want is something like teaches me how to start game planning, create all the game logic, game engine, game loop, I mean, the basic structure of RPG

 

That's very much related to programming, lol.  But if you're that new to game developing, I'd recommend checking out the same tutorials people linked me to:  Pong, Break-out, Tetris, Mario, in that order. They're small enough to help you focus on gaining understanding of the game loop and the logic somewhat systematically. 

 

Tutorials on huge games will do 2 things: 1) assume a good working knowledge over things you don't know about--namely the things you mentioned above; 2) or/and glaze over the details of "WHY" you're doing what they tell you to do. 

 

Once you have what you feel is a working understanding of game planning and logic, etc., then consider checking out some of the tutorials these people are linking you to.



#9 ml_   Members   -  Reputation: 279

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 07:52 PM

My personal opinion is that if you want to make an RPG, the easiest way to proceed would be to find an existing RPG and copy the source code in its entirety, make sure you can get it to work on your system, and then go in and start changing things around and customizing it. I think you can learn more about cars by working on a actual functioning car, then by trying to create a new car from scratch.



#10 Satharis   Members   -  Reputation: 835

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 09:57 PM

To be honest an attempt at an MMO is a fools errand anyway. It's not that the idea is impossible to learn just that even the most simple of what most people think about when they say "MMORPG" is such a huge time investment that it's almost a waste of time to consider doing it solo.

If anything if you get to the level where a simpler MMO is within grasp you'll probably already be able to plan out the massive amount of work you'll need to do to get it running, there's a reason for AAA starting an MMO is like declaring to your fellow rod fishing captains you're going to go buy a cruise liner.

Personally I would pick what aspect of it interest you the most and start learning that. Do you like the multiplayer aspect? Maybe look into that, or if the RPG gameplay interests you, look into that.

I myself have an idea for an MMO i'd like to go after some day but I'd have to take a long time to collect my thoughts on it and plan it before even starting such a big project by myself, help would be invaluable.

Edited by Satharis, 17 November 2013 - 09:57 PM.


#11 HScottH   Members   -  Reputation: 418

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 10:10 PM

All good advice above, but I really like ankhd's answer.

 

Why?

 

I haven't build many games (trivial 2D things for my son, tetris, etc.), but I've been architecting and programming software since the 80's and worked on projects that have > 10 million lines of code.

 

ankhd's answer matches my approach to most things: "solution by dichotomy." 

 

* Figure out the first thing you need; get it working (don't mess around with it too muxh, just get it working)

* Figure out the next, do the same

* ...

 

Expect to re-do every piece of the software, many times, and isolate each as much as possible so that a "re-do" doesn't have consequences elsewhere in the program.

 

You will not understand "how" a particular piece of the game should work until you have it working in context with many others. This leads to refacotring, re-architecting, optmization.  But save those for part of the discovery process and try not to "front-load" a lot of effort that you haven't proven you need.

 

At some point in this process, you will have all the core elements handled: rendering, animation, physics, menus, etc., and then all you will need is a killer store-line and mode of game-play.

 

And then you will likely re-write or update several of your core elements :-)



#12 Aspirer   Members   -  Reputation: 544

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 10:50 PM


but I've been architecting and programming software since the 80's and worked on projects that have > 10 million lines of code.

 

And I guarantee you didn't do all 10,000,000 lines of code yourself.  Nor, I'm sure, could I pick out random groups of 25 consecutive lines of that code and you flawlessly tell me precisely what those lines are doing. 

 

That's not degrading your ability, that's giving you an idea what you'd need to be able and do in order to build a full, worthwhile MMORPG. Maybe not 10,000,000 lines of code (though I think it may be fair to say that a AAA-rated MMORPG like Final Fantasy XIV or Elder Scrolls Online are probably in the millions), but even 1% of that is 100,000 lines of code that you would have to code, remember well enough to recall it on demand when time comes to work, fix, edit or expand on your code. 

 

Then there's the planning involved...  I admit, I'm new to game development (dreamed forever, finally starting it), so my miniscule projects I do on the fly.  But MMOs by the nature of non-linear gameplay on such a grand scale is like one author writing 25 novels at one time.   A project like an MMO, with all it's intricacies would necessitate planning it all out (probably in decent detail) before you even started making your first line of code.

 

After that, your assets.  If you don't want low-quality, free 3d models (which are fine for my little work, I admit), you're either going to have to learn 3d modeling and animation which is an enormous task in itself.  Believe me, I never fully appreciated people who "all they really do is make a pretty picture on computer" until I opened Blender for the first time. Now I consider their job every bit as hard as the actual programming.  Third option: Shell out some money for better quality models that are hopefully animated.  FYI, most of your free models aren't rigged, let alone animated, so you'd have to learn that anyway.

 

Other assets are your sound effects, 2d textures, etc.  A 24/7 dedicated server ($75/month on the cheap end--don't bother trying to search for a free one)

 

After the weeks of design, weeks of getting your assets together and getting everything you need for your game....  You get to master either a gaming engine (Unity, Cry-Engine, UDK) or a Library (XNA, DirectX, Ogre, SDL, etc.) and learn all the principles associated with programming graphics (2d and 3d), sound (2d and 3d), physics, extensive I/O, and all the lovely details of network protocols, etc.

 

 

 

Now, if you're like I was when I was given roughly that same speech, you're going to be annoyed, ignore it, and hope somebody hits me with a speeding car tomorrow. ^_^ And you'll either try getting a tutorial (which will likely tell you what to code, but not why--leaving you with essentially no more understanding than what you have now) or try to gather a team to help...  In my position--and I think yours, too--you've got nothing to show that would intrigue developers/artists with the ability you need for it, and the ones who want to be a part of it, have about as much experience at it as you do.

 

So, again, my advice is to do something, not necessarily easy, but achievable.  Then do something else achievable.  Repeat while (Achievements < Random(5, 10)).  Then, when you've done that, you'll have the basic principles down, you'll have a few of your own tricks up your sleeve, have the abilities you need to pull your own weight on a MMO, and the experience you need for other expert developers being genuinely interested in your idea.  At that point, you'll have yourself a small team.  And then maybe a worthwhile MMO is going to be feasible.



#13 wintertime   Members   -  Reputation: 1538

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 04:28 AM

To be fair, he stated that a MMORPG is only his future dream project, but he knows thats not going to be now.

Right now he only wants to make a 2D RPG with a tile-based map and that should be feasible if he starts with the basic features and continually adds on a few bits and pieces, following the list from ankhd.



#14 Tom KQT   Members   -  Reputation: 1360

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 04:43 AM

lol, I remember when I came to the forums with dreams and aspirations of an MMORPG for my first game...

People had the decency to shatter my dreams with the reality of "You'll never manage to make a successful, complete MMORPG on your own."

 

Now we link them to MMO tutorials...

And they were absolutely right. Making an MMORPG as the very first game is really a very very very bad idea ;) (The author of this thread even doesn't want it, it's his dream project for the future.)

Doing an MMORPG requires pieces of code (or perfectly working code) from too many fields at the same time. You need graphics, you need sound, you need game logic (plus a scripting language would probably help a lot), you need AI and you need networking (and not just a two-player server-client match, you need a robust multiple-player system).

Making smaller steps is better. Much better ;)






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