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With 1963 primitive graphics technology, How was this skeleton animations fights achieved?

Started by aeroKittens May 26, 2016 at 6:28 AM 7 replies 2.9k views
Original Post
aeroKittens
aeroKittens
Without any sophisticated computer graphics technology in 1963, how did the genius visual effects master Ray Harryhausen create the sword fighting skeletons in the original Jason and the Argonauts?
I thought they were using puppet string pulling techniques but with the open space and fast dynamic accuracy of the motions I think that must be impossible to do. This and this doesn't say too much on the real techniques used to make the skeletons animation.
With so little technology to work with, this must be the smartest visual effects guru ever.?
can't help being grumpy... Just need to let some steam out, so my head doesn't explode... 
Hodgman
Hodgman

Doesn't the picture in your link explain it?

dynamation_drawing.gif?w=620

Also :lol: @ the wilhelm scream at 2:12

Check this out from the 1940's:

Also stop motion, double exposures and matte painting.

alh420
alh420

Same way films like Nightmare before Christmas, and Wallace and Gromit is made...

(which IMO is even more impressive end result then Harryhousen, though his work is very impressive for being pioneering (and you'd expect the art to evolve over the decades))

Well, minus the backprojections and matte paintings.

aeroKittens
aeroKittens

Also :lol: @ the wilhelm scream at 2:12

Check this out from the 1940's:

Also stop motion, double exposures and matte painting.

Wow, I'm lost for words, that must have taken ages to make. Lots stop motions and synchronizing

I thought the image in the link I posted demonstrated how physical avatars (or puppets) are magnified to life size or giant size. But doesn't explain the unaided synchronized animated movements, overlayed into the real world

Same way films like Nightmare before Christmas, and Wallace and Gromit is made...

(which IMO is even more impressive end result then Harryhousen, though his work is very impressive for being pioneering (and you'd expect the art to evolve over the decades))

Well, minus the backprojections and matte paintings.

could post a vid link of this- if its available.

can't help being grumpy... Just need to let some steam out, so my head doesn't explode... 
Hodgman
Hodgman

I thought the image in the link I posted demonstrated how physical avatars (or puppets) are magnified to life size or giant size. But doesn't explain the unaided synchronized animated movements, overlayed into the real world


They could advance the background projector to by one frame (if a background is required), animate all the figurines by one frame, update/move the matte painting, advance the filming camera by one frame, and then operate the shutter like a regular camera to expose a single frame. That would capture the figurines, masked behind the matte painting, and the background projection behind them.
You could project the already-filmed real-life footage onto the background, which would be equivalent to compositing the matte painting and the stop-motion figurines on top of it.
If you use a black background (and possibly a black matte painting as a mask), and put the already-filmed real-life footage into the camera instead of the projector, then you can also superimpose the stop-motion figurines onto the existing footage via a second exposure over the original frames. This is an additive effect though - and you can see it in that russian video I linked, where the tiny dancing man sometimes appears translucent.
alh420
alh420

Same way films like Nightmare before Christmas, and Wallace and Gromit is made...

(which IMO is even more impressive end result then Harryhousen, though his work is very impressive for being pioneering (and you'd expect the art to evolve over the decades))

Well, minus the backprojections and matte paintings.

could post a vid link of this- if its available.

Lots and lots of work, and very talented animators.

aeroKittens
aeroKittens

They could advance the background projector to by one frame (if a background is required), animate all the figurines by one frame, update/move the matte painting, advance the filming camera by one frame, and then operate the shutter like a regular camera to expose a single frame. That would capture the figurines, masked behind the matte painting, and the background projection behind them.

You could project the already-filmed real-life footage onto the background, which would be equivalent to compositing the matte painting and the stop-motion figurines on top of it.
If you use a black background (and possibly a black matte painting as a mask), and put the already-filmed real-life footage into the camera instead of the projector, then you can also superimpose the stop-motion figurines onto the existing footage via a second exposure over the original frames. This is an additive effect though - and you can see it in that russian video I linked, where the tiny dancing man sometimes appears translucent.

Very smart people,

Lots and lots of work, and very talented animators.

Every single detail worked out, Wish I can be as meticulous

I hope they are able to reuse the set for many sequels though. It would be a waste if all that efforts is just for one or two films

can't help being grumpy... Just need to let some steam out, so my head doesn't explode... 
cowsarenotevil
cowsarenotevil

I thought the image in the link I posted demonstrated how physical avatars (or puppets) are magnified to life size or giant size. But doesn't explain the unaided synchronized animated movements, overlayed into the real world


They could advance the background projector to by one frame (if a background is required), animate all the figurines by one frame, update/move the matte painting, advance the filming camera by one frame, and then operate the shutter like a regular camera to expose a single frame. That would capture the figurines, masked behind the matte painting, and the background projection behind them.
You could project the already-filmed real-life footage onto the background, which would be equivalent to compositing the matte painting and the stop-motion figurines on top of it.
If you use a black background (and possibly a black matte painting as a mask), and put the already-filmed real-life footage into the camera instead of the projector, then you can also superimpose the stop-motion figurines onto the existing footage via a second exposure over the original frames. This is an additive effect though - and you can see it in that russian video I linked, where the tiny dancing man sometimes appears translucent.

It's worth noting that even though that particular video uses double exposure in the simplest way possible, it was also entirely possible to do proper chroma keying in 1940 as well.

-~-The Cow of Darkness-~-

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