I know all of this already. Read the top part of my blog where I list these same things... and what I say there. I know your industry has no respect for us at all already, even though we are your founding fathers and invented the way you make games. That's already made clear at the top of my blog. So you are certainly representing your industry well here, and demonstrating exactly what Pirate Lord was talking about.

I am in the credits for SFB. I am one of the most well-known staff members in the history of the SFB Staff. I am also one of the 5 staff members given a Silver Star for the design phase of the Captain's Edition in the Z section of Advanced Missions. But, really, you can just find anyone who ever played SFB for 6 months and ask them. This is not the case with most former staff members, but it will work with me.

You really should mess around with Territories for a little bit, and see our special kind of magic for yourself...

I am in the credits for SFB.

Show me. Show me your name in the credits. Show me *exactly* what you would write on your CV in order to prove that to you potential employers. The links I provided for all 3 editions of SFB just have Steven Cole as a designer. If that is a mistake, an omission, as I said, contact them, contact Steven Cole, and demand you be put in the credits as a designer. It's that simple. Why aren't you mad that you aren't listed as a designer in the above links? You seem to think the concept "claims made by someone must be verified" is a concept...the videogame industry invented? I'm pretty sure it was around long before that. :P

I would tell them I worked for Task Force Games from 1990-1992 and was also one of the more well-known members of the SFB Staff... and they would count that for absolutely nothing because you people don't know your own history, or who we are too you. It's been done before, you know. This is EXACTLY what Pirate Lord was talking about 8 years ago, you are demonstrating his point quite well right now.

I just looked at the credits you are using... boardgame geek.., Even Petrick isn't listed, just SVC. If any SFB players are reading this... they are laughing. Even Petrick isn't listed... and you expect me to be?

Okay, then show me *something* that proves you *are* one of the co-designers of SFB. I mean, jesus man, how is that so difficult to grasp - you have to *prove* to people what you say? I could say I worked as a graphics programmer at Crytek or id, don't I need to like...prove that? If the page in boardgame geeks are incorrect, show me the page that lists you as one of the designers of any SFB game, the one that you would link in your CV. People lying on their CV is not exactly...uncommon.

And frankly, as I said, I would just contact the site(like, *right now*) and go "hey, dumbasses, these are the correct credits, list us please because we want people to know we worked on it too when they google for the game and your page is the first result they get". This all goes back to the fact you don't seem to want to do *any* practical work, the kind of work all of us do, getting our names in the credits of the products we worked on, build a visible portfolio, get referrals, browse the net for job openings and sending our CVs which we refined as best as we could. You could have done so much all these years. You could have made mods, as I said. You could have uploaded youtube videos showing your amazing board games in action, using your toolset. *Something* that shows you actually can walk the walk and do the job. Was all that...beneath you? You expect to walk into an office and go "Hi I'm Kavik Kang and I'm your forefather and a legend of a dead industry(your words) - give me a job or you're all idiots". :D

I can't show you the credits from a board game over the internet. You have to remember that the primary age group for this group is mid-late 60's today. I am very young among them. There are others my age, but the "primary era" guys are in their mid-late 60's today. They don't live in this world. The barely use the internet. Just look at ADB's web site... a little outdated, don't you think? They know that, they don't care. That's what they've learned to use and they aren't going to change now, not worth it having to learn a whole new way.

There is a list of current SFB staff on that site. It is outdated, and was incomplete when it was new. It looks like SVC did it once, then decided it wasn't worth the trouble having to list entire service records through ribbons, and so like several octants of the SFU universe, it remains frozen in time only just begun in case anyone decides to go do it someday. I wouldn't have been on that anyway because I was about 10 years before that list and far from "current" at the time.

We are from a different generation. I am just barely the age to have been a computer user from childhood, they are 15-20 years older than that. The full credits only exist in the game itself. Steven P Petrick & Chuck "Raider" Strong are likely the only names you will find associated with design anywhere online. Possibly current "Rules Czar" Andy Vancil... who came out of my Denver tournaments. The actual credits are only in the products themselves.

PS - I tried it the way you say in the second paragraph for about 20 years. Literally. Pirate Lord was my giving up on you, and retiring from that... while letting you all know exactly what I thought of you on the way out. Only a series of events beginning with Star Control II, strangely enough, which led to Rube, has brought me "out of retirement". I already have 20 years of experience that tell me that the way you are suggesting won't work... because none of you have any idea of who we were. So it doesn't count for ANYTHING AT ALL with anyone in your industry. Even though we WERE your founding fathers, and we DID invent the process by which you make games today... and made a game that is at least 100 times more game, probably closer to 1,000, than any of you have ever made. Twice, if you want to count Babylon 5 as well...

Either take action to correct the credits in the sites, or literally take a photo of the box and paste it into your CV. Seriously. Or at least give them ways to contact SVC so he can verify it and put on a good word. Maybe SVC is from a different era and doesn't give a damn about the videogame industry and the internet, but you obviously do. If you seek employment, having a good CV and portfolio to show is, like, kind of essential. This is true for like, *any* job. This was true for all the jobs I've got, programmer-related or not. I'm not sure what else you expect from employers. I got the job I have now because I pasted screenshots and links to videos of my own indie game on the front page.

Anyway, I guess this discussion has ran its course. Best of luck with the prototype you decided to build :)

I tried that for 20 years... I did that already. There is no question, that's been proven beyond all doubt... you don't know who we were, it counts for NOTHING. I almost might as well not even mention it at all. It doesn't change anything either way. I am making a prototype of Territories this time, that's exactly what this thread was about. FInding out, from you, what I should try as one last attempt at this, since I already KNOW the method you are suggesting doesn't work. Together, we proved that beyond any doubt over 20 years last time. What's that thing they say about insanity again?

As for suggesting to SVC that he "take corrective action" about something that is exactly the way it is done in his business, AND how he should be running his business... I'd rather not initiate that particular dressing down from the Grand Admiral. The credits are absolutely correct and appropriate for his industry. If a potential employer wanted to call him, that would be just fine and appropriate in his mind. For me to ask what you are saying from him... I would completely deserve the lecture I would get for being that stupid! Within the SFB Staff, the SFB Staff is a very serious military organization. It really is. That isn't truly displayed to the players, although many do pick up on it. What you are asking me to do is essentially... "Hey, lowly Commodore Marcus, go tell the Grand Admiral how to run his military". You really are, that would be a very bad idea. Trust me on this one. Like I said, what is appropriate is that if a potential employer wanted to speak with him about me, he would be happy to do that for me or any of his other former staff members.

"Game design is a benevolent dictatorship... ruled by an Iron Fist." We are from very different gaming worlds.

The credits of the Star Fleet Universe are entirely correct and appropriate. My insulting SVC, the person solely behind the second most enduring game in the history of games (According to his induction ceremony into our Hall of Fame), second only to Dungeons & Dragons. My insulting him by telling him he is doing it wrong, and how he should be running his company is not something I would consider doing even if it were appropriate. He has done everything correctly, and would be perfectly happy to speak to potential employers of ANY staff member for ANY job... and he knows that we all know that. This is his way, and his way has endured for almost exactly 40 years now. I know that none of you can say that, because only Gary Gygax and Stephen V Cole can say that.

SVC has done everything correctly as far as our world is concerned, and he barely even knows that your world even exists. Nothing is wrong here, by our standards, and I know just like any other former staff member that SVC is always happy to speak with any potential employer of a former staff member. The is the "Grand Admiral's" procedure for that, which we all know very well and have seen him do every time anyone has ever asked it of him. He is doing it right in his business, and his 40 years of success in his business tell me that his way is probably the right way within his world.