A very special comment.

As great and somewhat melodramatic some of Olbermann's comments have been, I seriously doubt they will have any affect on how most American's think, for the simple fact most of them will not have even heard or read them. Others may hear of them, but via the spin meisters that essentially say he is insane or pandering to the left, and providing comfort to the terrorists. What we need is for one of the evening broadcast news anchors to say these things.

Most Americans are too busy watching football to pay attention. Plus most Americans are too dumb to know they had rights in the first place (unless you mention a buzz-word like Freedom, then they freak out and wave flags). I am an American, and I must say I am not impressed by our government. LOOK, TREASONOUS LANGUAGE, COME ARREST ME NOW!

USA does not stand for 'United States of America'. It stands for 'United States of Apathy.'

'Beginning of the End of America'

Quote:

... We have handed a blank check drawn against our freedom to a man who may now, if he so decides, declare not merely any non-American citizens “unlawful enemy combatants” and ship them somewhere—anywhere -- but may now, if he so decides, declare you an “unlawful enemy combatant” and ship you somewhere - anywhere. And if you think this hyperbole or hysteria, ask the newspaper editors when John Adams was president or the pacifists when Woodrow Wilson was president or the Japanese at Manzanar when Franklin Roosevelt was president. And if you somehow think habeas corpus has not been suspended for American citizens but only for everybody else, ask yourself this: If you are pulled off the street tomorrow, and they call you an alien or an undocumented immigrant or an “unlawful enemy combatant”—exactly how are you going to convince them to give you a court hearing to prove you are not? Do you think this attorney general is going to help you? This President now has his blank check. He lied to get it. He lied as he received it. Is there any reason to even hope he has not lied about how he intends to use it nor who he intends to use it against? ...

So, as an alien currently in the US, should I move out now or is actually trying to leave more dangerous ?

Considering what has been revealed about "extraordinary rendition", leaving the US won't prevent them from nabbing you if that's what they want to do. The part from Olbermann's comment that I put in bold suggests that the facts about a person's immigration status do not matter. If the President says you're a terrorist, you're a terrorist and you'll never get the chance to challenge that accusation in court.

The Bush administration has been attacking Habeas Corpus for years now. US citizen and alleged terrorist Jose Padilla was held without charge for three years, most of that time in solitary confinement. The Bush administration has also pursued the use of secret trials. For additional details on that see Secret 9/11 case before high court, Supreme Court asks for more input on secret Sept. 11 case, Plea for Openness, MKB v. Warden and VIII. Secret Proceedings.

On this point I have to disagree with Olbermann. The passage of the MCA does not mark the beginning of the end of America. That ending began back in 2002. Imo, the MCA marks the end of the first phase of the dismantling of America.

Does anyone else find it odd that he'll speak quite strongly, yet still refer to the president as 'sir'?

Well - odd in the sense that he sounds a little different and considerably more intelligent and polite than than your usual Michael Moore. [wink]

It allows him to put the necessary emphasis and disdain and disgust on what he is saying, without people being distracted by "zomg! loud liberal disrespecting the prez!".

Quote:

Original post by OrangyTang Does anyone else find it odd that he'll speak quite strongly, yet still refer to the president as 'sir'?

I think that was an intentional sign that he is giving the president the "respect" that he "deserves" as our commander in chief. Note the quotation marks.

Gamedev Gathering: Gitmo, anyone? [smile]

I think Olbermann is seriously trying to become this generation's Murrow. Whether he succeeds or not is still rather hard to predict.

Treating suspected terrorists as combatants? I'm sorry, but I really don't have a problem with this. Non-citizens don't have Constitutional rights to start out with, so I don't see how this is an attack against it.

Quote:

Treating suspected terrorists as combatants? I'm sorry, but I really don't have a problem with this. Non-citizens don't have Constitutional rights to start out with, so I don't see how this is an attack against it.

Obligatory:

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
after all I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
after all I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
after all I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
~Martin Niemöller

Quote:

Original post by ChemicalImbalance Treating suspected terrorists as combatants? I'm sorry, but I really don't have a problem with this. Non-citizens don't have Constitutional rights to start out with, so I don't see how this is an attack against it.

Are you dense ?! CITIZENS DO! AND THIS IS AN ATTACK AGAINST YOUR RIGHTS AS AN AMERICAN CITIZEN

Jesus christ! Do you even have any idea what you're talking about? Just who the fuck decides who is an "unlawful enemy combatant?!" NOT A COURT! THAT'S WHO!

You think I'm overreacting. I think it's borderline sick how much you're underreacting. Jesus Christ, what is it going to take for you apathetic slugs to fucking raise a stink? God, you people would let people instill curfews and let the government install cameras in your homes. You'd let them do away with term limits and voting. I'm sure of it. You're just that apathetic. You piss me off.

What are you going to do about this?! NOTHING!! You make me sick!

Am I the only one who felt there was not nearly enough empahasis on the factual evidence, and too much emphasis on the "Bush is the root of all evil" in this video?

Quote:

Original post by Thevenin Am I the only one who felt there was not nearly enough empahasis on the factual evidence, and too much emphasis on the "Bush is the root of all evil" in this video?

Yes, the arguments are very consistent, well supported with evidence. So, you're the only one who doesn't like Bush bashed in polite way.

Quote:

Original post by Toolmaker Quote: Original post by Thevenin Am I the only one who felt there was not nearly enough empahasis on the factual evidence, and too much emphasis on the "Bush is the root of all evil" in this video? Yes, the arguments are very consistent, well supported with evidence. So, you're the only one who doesn't like Bush bashed in polite way.

I'm going to go out on a limb a bit and say it must have something to do with my severe egoism. [rolleyes]

*shrug*

All Bush really did was to put it on paper for the future historians. Noone in their right mind can stand up and say that all the stuff has not been going on anyways. Now it will just not have to be proven, its documented too.

There has been reports all over the world about CIA kidnapings, illegal searches, torture, warcrimes and what not for the past 4-5 years. Everyone who have not have a shade around their head have seen/heard about it and know it happens on a daily basis. So there is no news in the acctual signing of the new laws.

The only reason I can see that he acctually needed it is to be able to say it is the will of the people, because the paper say so and the paper was made by someone democratically elected by the US people. Not that it matters either really, BORG says BORG do, has worked well for him so far.

The irony though is that it essentially says "We do not want to be part of international law, but our laws should be international."

Quote:

Original post by jfclavette So, as an alien currently in the US, should I move out now or is actually trying to leave more dangerous ?

You are not anymore safe anywhere else in the world, if they decide on targeting you.
Europeans Investigate CIA Role in Abductions

Quote:

Milan - A radical Egyptian cleric known as Abu Omar was walking to a Milan mosque for noon prayers in February 2003 when he was grabbed on the sidewalk by two men, sprayed in the face with chemicals and stuffed into a van. He hasn't been seen since.

Quote:

In Sweden, a parliamentary investigation has found that CIA agents wearing hoods orchestrated the forced removal in December 2001 of two Egyptian nationals on a U.S.-registered airplane to Cairo, where the men claimed they were tortured in prison.

Quote:

In late December 2003, Khaled Masri got into a bitter argument with his wife in their home town of Ulm, Germany. They agreed he should get away for a few days, so he bought a bus ticket for Skopje, Macedonia. At the Macedonian border on New Year's Eve, immigration officials took a close look at his passport and detained him, without explanation. Other agents later interrogated him and pressed him to admit he was a member of al Qaeda, according to accounts Masri gave his attorney and German prosecutors. Masri protested his innocence, but was kept under guard in Macedonia for three weeks. He said that one day in late January 2004, he was beaten, stripped, shackled and put on a plane that took him to Afghanistan. There, he was kept in a cell under dismal conditions, deprived of water and repeatedly interrogated. Only after going on a hunger strike, he said, did his captors relent; he was flown back to the Balkans in May 2004.

Quote:

Original post by Kevinator Quote: Original post by ChemicalImbalance Treating suspected terrorists as combatants? I'm sorry, but I really don't have a problem with this. Non-citizens don't have Constitutional rights to start out with, so I don't see how this is an attack against it. Are you dense ?! CITIZENS DO! AND THIS IS AN ATTACK AGAINST YOUR RIGHTS AS AN AMERICAN CITIZEN Jesus christ! Do you even have any idea what you're talking about? Just who the fuck decides who is an "unlawful enemy combatant?!" NOT A COURT! THAT'S WHO! You think I'm overreacting. I think it's borderline sick how much you're underreacting. Jesus Christ, what is it going to take for you apathetic slugs to fucking raise a stink? God, you people would let people instill curfews and let the government install cameras in your homes. You'd let them do away with term limits and voting. I'm sure of it. You're just that apathetic. You piss me off. What are you going to do about this?! NOTHING!! You make me sick!

Well, yes, and I'll add that the first ten Amendments refer to people and not citizens (we don't even have to talk about incorporation with the 14th Amendment because this deals with the federal government doing something blatantly wrong, not a State).