Linear Vs. Interactive!

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187 comments, last by Landfish 21 years, 2 months ago
Oh, god I hate that picture! I hate it I hate it I hate it! Everybody please note that it was taken from the OLD SAMPLE SITE, and the new one will be up shortly. We have a professional illustrater (BFA) doing the design, so it will be much better!

Hey, Kylotan, unless I am gravely mistaken; when a story develops in a non-linear environment, it is hence a non-linear story. Everything is linear in retrospect, but if there are infinite possible outcomes based on each individual event, it''s non-linear through and through!

Nazrix: Well, it doesn''t matter so long as I got you to think independantly before returing to the original idea. Hey, sometimes you were just right the first time!
======"The unexamined life is not worth living."-Socrates"Question everything. Especially Landfish."-Matt
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Yeah, good point...You definitely got me thinking as usual
I think there is a destinction as Kylotan described. Can''t a story be linear while the game is not?

I kinda like the picture BTW.
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself. "Just don't look at the hole." -- Unspoken_Magi
Linear- Course of action determined (even multiply) by writer

Non-linear- Situation determined by creator, courses of action = whatever the f*ck the player feels like.

Does that clear it up? Is that RIGHT? Your guess is as good as mine. It doesn''t really matter. So long as your game is GOOD! And if you''re thinking about everything before you implement it, I have faith in you, man.
======"The unexamined life is not worth living."-Socrates"Question everything. Especially Landfish."-Matt
Well, in the Action/Adventure game I''m designing with other people, we choose that kind of thing :

_Write a basic linear story, and add new storyline to the story.
The storylines are different from each other in some way (noticable differences) but share much of their parts with each other (to diminish the amount of work we need).
Some critical sections/events are build up, in which the player has to choose an action, and from the action he chooses, we put him toward one or another of the storylines.


In my upcoming RPG, I designed something different, the game is divided into chapters in which you''re free, each chapter has multiple ending (from 2 to 3, except final with 5).
Each end of a chapter is a summary of what you did and will affect the nexts chapters.
This lead to a very ''free'' game without a bad story.

I''ve thought of a way to skip some chapters, or to have parrallele chapters at a time, but it''s very time cosuming to plan all of this, so sofar I didn''t choose that solution.


I tend to prefer games with story than games without.
But I don''t like much Final Fantasy games which are way to much linear to me.

I think the methods exposed in the thread are really interesting and a way to go.

I think MMORPG must be designed so that only players must be in the game. (They will have to choose between good and evil, and will probably give the world some subtil shade.)
Game makers must make stories, while people are making their plans.


-* Sounds, music and story makes the difference between good and great games *-
Sorry the last post was from me.

Edited by - Ingenu on June 13, 2000 4:18:28 AM
-* So many things to do, so little time to spend. *-
quote:Original post by Landfish
Hey, Kylotan, unless I am gravely mistaken; when a story develops in a non-linear environment, it is hence a non-linear story. Everything is linear in retrospect, but if there are infinite possible outcomes based on each individual event, it''s non-linear through and through!


Depends.

If I can wander off to explore a dungeon I passed earlier because I am stuck on some part of the ''plot'', then I suppose that the ''story'' could be said to have changed, since anyone writing a chronicle of my deeds would have to include my little dungeon bash.

But perhaps that dungeon bash has no relevance to the ''plot'', where plot is defined as the overall sequence of events, the progression from one milestone to the next? This could mean that, whereas my gameplaying experience was non-linear, the plot in the game is linear - it just allows you to deviate from it and indulge in side activities, or even sub-plots if thought out in enough detail.

Fiction can often be divided into 3 parts: plot, characterization, and situation. The dungeon trek could be considered to add to the characterization part (quite literally improving the characters, perhaps having someone die and get resurrected along the way) and the situation part (it sets the scene and describes another part of the world) but without really affecting the plot.

So, here''s my simple proposal:
Linear plots good.
Linear gameplay bad.
Okay - how can we not have mentioned Blade Runner yet? The graphics were good and maybe it was slightly over-rated (depending which mag u read about it) but still, it had something like 7 to 9 endings. Where in none of them did the character actually "lose". The game picked up on what the player was trying to do and answered the question on his mind at the end. One time when I was playing it I sorta directed my investigation towards finding out if I was a replicant and I was suitably rewarded with an ending which confirmed I wasn''t one. The second time I player more like a detective and was rewarded during the game by the showing up of "Gaff" or whatever his name is to say what a good job I''m doing.
The game itself is relatively linear and you go through each situation no matter how you play them but they way u do them is slightly different and the outcome is altered by that.
Which basically means it maintains an extremely coherent plot as well as a sense of not doing the same thing over and over again...
Interesting... but the theme was in tact and the ending was *technically* the same, right? If so, chalk it up as an easter egg.
======"The unexamined life is not worth living."-Socrates"Question everything. Especially Landfish."-Matt
I believe that some linear games have a problem with trying to be too non-linear. The example I think of is Final Fantasy VII. Near the end of the game, you have to SAVE THE WORLD!!!! But wait, you can still spend hours after you learn this and still save the world later. It does not make sense to have time stop in such a crucial point in the story. I think that this is a problem in many games.

Multiple Vs One Ending: Multiple endings can / will ruin stories if the game is meant to be replayable. Using my previous example, what if in FF7 that the ending was instead 5 different 5 minute videos? Would you want to replay all 40+ hours of the game just to see a different 5 minute video. One way to prevent multiple endings is to have multiple stories, but then what is better, having many stories in one game or many games with one story?

I''m sorry if this post is just a rehash of what has already been said, but that''s the best I can do taking regular English in high school (if I was in Honor''s English, I could do better )

- TMOLI 42
- TMOLI 42 Powered by hypocrisy!"Go crazy? Don't mind if I do!" - Homer Simpson
Did I mention that my upcoming games use both time based event and action based event ?

This is to stop this ridiculous time limited that is in fact ... unlimited.

It also create a much more dynamic world with a little AI, not something awesome but combined with action based and time based events it really looks great.

It''s up to us to design a game the ''right'' way.
Rather than complaining with this or that features look for an answer a system that won''t suffer such a problem, and you''ll end up with a really nice game design.

Oh! Don''t ever, never, design a game as a ?? killer, you''ll fail.
Rather think your game as a X+Y+Z like game.
(I chooses mine to be a Outcast, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, resident evil like game)

[End of thinking, I got to work, I''m @ work and did nothing in the last hour ]

-* Sounds, music and story makes the difference between good and great games *-
-* So many things to do, so little time to spend. *-

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