A program to fabricate and articulate a plausible interlude
Author
Honestly, I don''t think much about current games because they ring like a hollow tin can.
Should the game use your previous actions to guide these interludes? Or will it be difficult enough without this added constraint?
Perhaps you could create a knowledge base system, with rules for generating specific instances of some general theme...kind of like L-systems?
For example, let''s look at some of the data objects and relations in a western:
(possesions horse money ranch saddle farm)
(occupations farmer cowboy ranchhand bartender clerk robber)
(skills (horseback riding) accounting bartending growing)
(requires-possesion farmer farm)
(requires-skill clerk accounting)
(requires-possesion cowboy horse)
(requires-skill bartender bartending)
(requires-need robber money)
(epochs farming (running a business) (rounding up cattle) (auditing the books) (being an outlaw))
You could then generate certain periods of activity(I called them epochs) that are appropriate for your character, based on their skills, possesions, and circumstance. Perhaps the game has detected that after your last adventure, you are broke, but posess the skills of a clerk, and decides that you should get a job at a store.
What I''ve outlined is pretty crude - really just a set of axioms. I envision something where the system can make reasonable inferences, given a set of rules/laws/customs in a particular society. These of course would be highly dependent on the particular domain of the game.
Perhaps you could create a knowledge base system, with rules for generating specific instances of some general theme...kind of like L-systems?
For example, let''s look at some of the data objects and relations in a western:
(possesions horse money ranch saddle farm)
(occupations farmer cowboy ranchhand bartender clerk robber)
(skills (horseback riding) accounting bartending growing)
(requires-possesion farmer farm)
(requires-skill clerk accounting)
(requires-possesion cowboy horse)
(requires-skill bartender bartending)
(requires-need robber money)
(epochs farming (running a business) (rounding up cattle) (auditing the books) (being an outlaw))
You could then generate certain periods of activity(I called them epochs) that are appropriate for your character, based on their skills, possesions, and circumstance. Perhaps the game has detected that after your last adventure, you are broke, but posess the skills of a clerk, and decides that you should get a job at a store.
What I''ve outlined is pretty crude - really just a set of axioms. I envision something where the system can make reasonable inferences, given a set of rules/laws/customs in a particular society. These of course would be highly dependent on the particular domain of the game.
You can be less "epoch" focused as well...what DOES your character do in the in-between-times? Refresh, recharge, earn some money, find a place to sleep, learn a new skill - basically live out life.
These can provide motivations for a character''s inbetween actions. The character tried to make a daring escape on horseback, only to fall off? On his inbetween time, it''s likely that the character would practice horseback riding. Not enough money to buy something important? The character would probably find a source of income - getting a job, collecting bounties on outlaws, holding up stagecoaches, etc. Lost a trusty whip? Would probably spend time purchasing a new one, and practicing with it.
Was helped by indians(ehm...native americans) chasing down an outlaw? Would spend some time with the natives, learning their customs and living among them.
I think you can get a fair amount of milage out of using some of the events from the last session to provoke the inbetween actions, perhaps as the input to a more formal system that could evaluate the rules of a certain culture.
These can provide motivations for a character''s inbetween actions. The character tried to make a daring escape on horseback, only to fall off? On his inbetween time, it''s likely that the character would practice horseback riding. Not enough money to buy something important? The character would probably find a source of income - getting a job, collecting bounties on outlaws, holding up stagecoaches, etc. Lost a trusty whip? Would probably spend time purchasing a new one, and practicing with it.
Was helped by indians(ehm...native americans) chasing down an outlaw? Would spend some time with the natives, learning their customs and living among them.
I think you can get a fair amount of milage out of using some of the events from the last session to provoke the inbetween actions, perhaps as the input to a more formal system that could evaluate the rules of a certain culture.
The formal system I am proposing could go a long way towards setting up conflicts for future gaming sessions. You could have several agents, and they could all be run by this set of rules. Naturally, there would be conflict when contradictory goals occur:
Your player is good hearted, working on a ranch as a cowboy, etc.
One of the computer agents is an outlaw, robbing people in the countryside to make money.
One day, you happen to be in the country-side...
Or, you become a store owner, with a steady cash flow. You are planning on reinvesting it into another store in some other town, but the only land available is being tied up by another agent with some other plan...
Your player is good hearted, working on a ranch as a cowboy, etc.
One of the computer agents is an outlaw, robbing people in the countryside to make money.
One day, you happen to be in the country-side...
Or, you become a store owner, with a steady cash flow. You are planning on reinvesting it into another store in some other town, but the only land available is being tied up by another agent with some other plan...
Of course, if your scenarios are already planned out, then the system needs to find a way to engage in this quasi-random simulation, but still be reaching towards an overall goal. This actually works fairly well, since it sets a concrete goal for the player''s agent, and the computer agents. If you know the next mission will be a political game, for instance, it can give your agent the goal of attaining public office. Then, you''ll generate a sequence of events based on you living your life with a goal of attaining public office, at which point a hostile computer agent can be introduced, creating the conflict and setting the stage for the next gaming session.
Author
sjelkjd, that is some excellent stuff you''ve written, and it goes a long way towards setting up the foundations for what I have been kicking around in this topic. Amongst all the chatter in this thread, you''ve really hit the nail on the head, and hopefully shown a few others the type of thinking which can prevail for this type of thing.
While I''m still getting a grasp of the symbolic approach etc (read: Lisp) it seems as though the scale of this, even in a smale, confined setting, is amazingly vast. I''m really interested as to how this develops in any event.
Author
I don't think the scale is vast at all. To think in such a manner is too admit defeat.
This is a linear problem for the most part. The amount of work you put in will in general translate to the amount of variety your program can output. After creating a symbolic structure for the knowledge, start building the knowledge.
Sometimes, you're better off jumping in and creating something simple to prototype the idea than bemoan the difficulties of it.
[edited by - bishop_pass on October 14, 2003 2:40:07 PM]
This is a linear problem for the most part. The amount of work you put in will in general translate to the amount of variety your program can output. After creating a symbolic structure for the knowledge, start building the knowledge.
Sometimes, you're better off jumping in and creating something simple to prototype the idea than bemoan the difficulties of it.
[edited by - bishop_pass on October 14, 2003 2:40:07 PM]
Oh, I completely agree. I''m not admitting defeat and that''s why I said I''d like to see where this goes while I admit I''m still working with the beginning subtleties of this sort of theory that put this out of my league at the moment.
Author
quote:Original post by sjelkjdI think it should use your previous actions to guide the interludes.
Should the game use your previous actions to guide these interludes? Or will it be difficult enough without this added constraint?
quote:I don''t know about the L-systems part - I wouldn''t really characterize it like that, but certainly a knowledge based system.
Perhaps you could create a knowledge base system, with rules for generating specific instances of some general theme...kind of like L-systems?
quote:Yes, those are good examples and ideas.
For example, let''s look at some of the data objects and relations in a western:
(possesions horse money ranch saddle farm)
(occupations farmer cowboy ranchhand bartender clerk robber)
(skills (horseback riding) accounting bartending growing)
(requires-possesion farmer farm)
(requires-skill clerk accounting)
(requires-possesion cowboy horse)
(requires-skill bartender bartending)
(requires-need robber money)
(epochs farming (running a business) (rounding up cattle) (auditing the books) (being an outlaw))
You could then generate certain periods of activity(I called them epochs) that are appropriate for your character, based on their skills, possesions, and circumstance. Perhaps the game has detected that after your last adventure, you are broke, but posess the skills of a clerk, and decides that you should get a job at a store.
quote:Yes, each domain would require its own knowledge base. This actually simplifies the problem, rather than making one think they need to come up with a general purpose story creator, which is what I think some around here think the task requires, which simply isn''t the case.
What I''ve outlined is pretty crude - really just a set of axioms. I envision something where the system can make reasonable inferences, given a set of rules/laws/customs in a particular society. These of course would be highly dependent on the particular domain of the game.
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