How many people can completely miss a point? Looks like a lot. What the heck do cowboys have to do with this? I didn''t say developers need to make cowboy games.

What I said was exactly what I said, and that wasn''t that developers need to make cowboy games.

For all I care, developers could make a game about the Roaring ''20s. But they don''t, because they can''t, for the most part. They can''t, because they don''t have an obsession with it. If they don''t have an obsession with it, they can''t provide quality material. What they can produce is elves and goblins, because they have an obsession with it. So that''s what we get. But how hard is it to have an obsession about elves and goblins? Not very, because you don''t have to answer to any source which is derived from reality. Perfect fodder for young adults, mostly, as they haven''t acquired the financial resources or other such things in life to appreciate more reality based material.

If it seems I have an obsession (it''s really a genuine interest), then that leads to one having solved the first step towards producing something.

I agree with bishop_pass there should be more games about cowboys during the roaring 20's. :D


Generally people make art or games about things they are interested, or to appeal to particaluar group interested in that subject. Lets face it alot young people are interested in soilder and fantasy that why they most games these days are like that.


As far as art goes, there are many kinds of art and styles, both of which are determined by the artist who creates the work of art. Thus a drawing of an elf can never be wrong since its the artist own interpration. Just like a painting of a landscape is still a proper landscape even if isn't photo realistic.

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[edited by - TechnoGoth on November 19, 2003 10:11:37 PM]

I''m really really tired right now, too tired in fact to read all of the above posts, so if I just re-reiterated something that''s just bad, shoot me or something. Anyway, I think the point that people are missing is that when you draw the fun stuff like anime goblins, robots, and spaceships, your skills become skewed, so suddenly, when someone does ask you to draw a cowboy, you can''t. Don''t think it''ll happen? How about when your boss asks you to do some concepts for a game character (human modern day setting), and you give him an anime character, or even worse, a scene with horrible lighting and proportions. You''re not going to get much work that way. Even if you see a lot of anime on the market, you can tell the difference between the work of someone who knows their stuff and someone who doesn''t, it''s very apparent IMO, besides, if art is your love, then don''t you want to be good at it. I''ve been doing art for a long time, and now I''m going back and getting my basics down stronger to improve my craft. I would suggest other people do the same unless you want me to get your job

quote:For all I care, developers could make a game about the Roaring ''20s. But they don''t, because they can''t, for the most part. They can''t, because they don''t have an obsession with it. If they don''t have an obsession with it, they can''t provide quality material. What they can produce is elves and goblins, because they have an obsession with it. So that''s what we get. But how hard is it to have an obsession about elves and goblins? Not very, because you don''t have to answer to any source which is derived from reality. Perfect fodder for young adults, mostly, as they haven''t acquired the financial resources or other such things in life to appreciate more reality based material.

that happen is that you "flame" people because they has not the same interest as you

let''s see, as an artist (i''m in an art school) i could argue ,and many do, that common "artist" are "lame" because they are stuck in represenation of reality, but they realize enough they should know that drawing is about line and skill of gesture, then abstract drawing is what we have to care, representation is the problem, if you can''t go beyond the representation you will never be a good artist
abstract can express the inner feelings and the essence of thing better than mere representation can do, and they stuck drawing in state which did not show his true possibility

well it''s a selfish point of view that i don''t care of
actually abstract and stylish art are the most difficult if you have the knowledge to understand them, many people which od abstract art as well as those which ake representation don''t have a clue about what they are doing really mean, then can''t go beyond that, the problem is not reality, goblin are as real as you in this topic they are representation of something to define in order to handle this, you could argue than i would never met a goblin while i could met you and even kick you, but then i have never met such things like stupidity or inteligence or even knowledge but don''t argue they did not exist, i could represent them efficienty, i can use words (they are representation of reality)...

then bishop if they have miss the point,
you just did it too, because you just do the same as them, (you just have never the experiance of being with friends telling about role party or the latest books read which wow you thousand time called bilbon the hobbit, you have never experiance joy with this? , then can you imagine than some else can just not enjoy mundane things because they are not a source of joy? (yet?), i know various person and met a lots, not a single as the same experiance)

for myself i did not draw something like goblin, but i understand why people do, then i could try to make them feel somethings else, you have to make them experiment your joy rather than your deceipt

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
be good
be evil
but do it WELL
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

quote:Original post by Neoshaman
that happen is that you "flame" people because they has not the same interest as you.

Oh please. Don''t bring up the flame argument - and even worse - base it on nothing substantial. It''s not about whether people have the same interest as me. I''ve said that before, but I always need to repeat it. Your statement is preposterous, and it only shows that you too miss the point.

Any medium which strives to portray things has as its inspiring elements all of the World and history to draw from. Look at writing, literature or cinema. If the balance of diversity in the game development arena rivaled the balance of diversity in those other industries, then everyone would be talking about different things, creating diversity.

I''d be talking about horsemanship. Another would be talking about Packard automobiles. Another about deepsea diving. Another about exploring the Antarctic coast. Another about the Roaring ''20s. Another about the Civil War. Someone else would be discussing dueling with pistols. Another would be discussing gambling on riverboats. Someone else would be fascinated with the Amazon Jungle.

Don''t acuse me of acusing others of not being interested in my interests. Rather, look to the imbalance of interests within the game development arena, where you will see a rather narrow channel of interests.

Bishop, this is not intended as criticism, but the writing style of your original post makes it difficult to distinguish between the point that you were trying to make and the arguments you used to make it, so in order to clear up some of the confusion that has arisen, could you please clarify what your point actually is? What exactly is this "problem" of which you speak? As near as I can tell it is simply that you think there is not enough variety or depth in the world of gaming, and that you believe this is because of some level of immaturity on the part of developers, is that right?

quote:Original post by bishop_pass
How many people can completely miss a point? Looks like a lot. What the heck do cowboys have to do with this? I didn''t say developers need to make cowboy games.

Did it ever occur to you that the majority of posters may not have been replying to you, but to the other people who have since posted in this thread? Personally, I was replying to someone who had posted his opinions on game themes. Sorry, if it was not something you wanted to hear.

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