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Inventory: Space and Weight
Author
Almost finished a combat system and now i''m looking at how the inventory can work in the RPG i''m working on. I''m currently balancing out the values of using either space or weight as a way of handling inventory items.
As i''ve worked out so far Weight will take away any hardship in managing one''s inventory becuase it handles everything so generically. While using Space could add some fun. What i wanted to know is how much fun people find in managing there inventory. Do you think that inventories add much to a game? Do you find it fun managing you inventory?
I''m also trying to work out if the player could affect there inventory (eg.holding capacity in some way). Apart from just re-arranging items so they fit in better. How many different ways can there be to manage ones inventory.
What about having some sort of elastic inventory system that could break if abused. Or actually being able to attack someone''s bag so they''ll have no way of holding stuff. I''m planning so far to use a 3D/2D inventory system which means it''s obviously going to be space orientated. I don''t know, just thought i''d ask. Maybe one of you''s have been through all this before and could pass on some wise thought''s that could help
I love Game Design and it loves me back.
Our Goal is "Fun"!
I love Game Design and it loves me back.
Our Goal is "Fun"!
Diablo 1 Mage: "Where would I put this?"
Me: "Bend over, and I''ll show you, dammit!!!"
The idea of rearranging inventory isn''t something I find terribly heroic. I mean, really, would Lancelot have ever lost a battle because he couldn''t fit his sword next to his chalice which was next to his... you get the idea...
In Diablo, the player isn''t doing something that the computer couldn''t be doing, and since it''s not very compelling in and of itself I think it''s one of those things that should be abstracted or automated. So, I''d support weight based inventory.
BTW, by elastic did you mean your bags could break and such? If so, it''s a tad more realistic but if you''ve ever had a trash bag break on you while carrying it, you''ll know that the act of picking up the trash isn''t something that sends thrills down your spine.
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Just waiting for the mothership...
Me: "Bend over, and I''ll show you, dammit!!!"
The idea of rearranging inventory isn''t something I find terribly heroic. I mean, really, would Lancelot have ever lost a battle because he couldn''t fit his sword next to his chalice which was next to his... you get the idea...
In Diablo, the player isn''t doing something that the computer couldn''t be doing, and since it''s not very compelling in and of itself I think it''s one of those things that should be abstracted or automated. So, I''d support weight based inventory.
BTW, by elastic did you mean your bags could break and such? If so, it''s a tad more realistic but if you''ve ever had a trash bag break on you while carrying it, you''ll know that the act of picking up the trash isn''t something that sends thrills down your spine.
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Just waiting for the mothership...
I''m sorry, but I can not totally agree with Wavinator here. I believe many players (inkluding me) think it is fun with inventory managing. Players are in general greedy, and want to take every bloody thing they find with them (even if it''s just a small grey stone). So by adding space I think you add another thinking to the game, now you can not take with you 9 staffs or spears as it is impossible to fit them in your inventory, if it is just weight based then this is in theory possible.
By allowing the player to carry a backpack (maybe of diffrent sizes) s/he can expand the maximum inventory limit the have, both in weight and space. Also by saying that this backpack can only hold a certain weight, but allowing players to over weight it at the prize of that it might break add to the fun, if I say so my self. Imagine you at the treasure of the dragon, filling you backpack with all the goodies down there, and in your greed not realising that you over filled you backpack. Suddenly the backpack breaks and there you are with even less inventory space.
The idea that a player can carry up to a certain weight is not realistic enough, by adding space limits an extra challange is added.
Take care.
By allowing the player to carry a backpack (maybe of diffrent sizes) s/he can expand the maximum inventory limit the have, both in weight and space. Also by saying that this backpack can only hold a certain weight, but allowing players to over weight it at the prize of that it might break add to the fun, if I say so my self. Imagine you at the treasure of the dragon, filling you backpack with all the goodies down there, and in your greed not realising that you over filled you backpack. Suddenly the backpack breaks and there you are with even less inventory space.
The idea that a player can carry up to a certain weight is not realistic enough, by adding space limits an extra challange is added.
Take care.
I agree on that idea since it''s in my upcoming RPG design document, and already implemented in the rules system.
(I know my design have many many features, but I''m a 10 years old Game Master, so RPG have no more secrets to me
)
-* So many things to do, so little time to spend. *-
(I know my design have many many features, but I''m a 10 years old Game Master, so RPG have no more secrets to me
) -* So many things to do, so little time to spend. *-
Diablo Inventory managin sux big time. Spending time moving stuff around to make room for that single potion is a waste of time and an utter bore. Lesson is don''t have a inventory that space-wise is realistic.
Working with weight is much better. A certain race can for instance carry more than another. Certain bags can have weightreduction, like the bottomless bag of holding in AD&D campaign.
Your idea about being able to affect inventory works well in the following cases:
- Your inventory eq is smoked. Say for instance you are fighting a dragon, and it breathes fire. Your bag isn''t fire resistant and all burns up.
- You are a thief, and want to pickpocket
A genre that has alot more experience with inventory is the adventure game genre. I always liked the rollover on inventory items in Discworld II.
Being able to lock items in your inventory like boxes etc. is also cool.
Well thats some organized thoughts on inventory from spyder.
Working with weight is much better. A certain race can for instance carry more than another. Certain bags can have weightreduction, like the bottomless bag of holding in AD&D campaign.
Your idea about being able to affect inventory works well in the following cases:
- Your inventory eq is smoked. Say for instance you are fighting a dragon, and it breathes fire. Your bag isn''t fire resistant and all burns up.
- You are a thief, and want to pickpocket
A genre that has alot more experience with inventory is the adventure game genre. I always liked the rollover on inventory items in Discworld II.
Being able to lock items in your inventory like boxes etc. is also cool.
Well thats some organized thoughts on inventory from spyder.
I''d go with the more realistic weight system. More realistic in the regards that if you ditch a halbred in D2, you could sqeez in a set of full plate and a trinket or two.... there is something really wrong with that.
I think inventory is one of those rarity''s where its actually more fun if its semi-realistic. I like a space/weight hybrid where there is a maximum weight limit and a 3D physical space for each container you carry. I actually enjoyed in tabletop DnD, deciding where to store each piece of equipment. (eg. knife in my boot, valuable gems in the false bottom of the tiny trick chest w/ the poisoned needletrap in the lock) A big thing in RPG''s is distinguishing your character (well, duh 8-) so letting people be tricky w/ different sized and featured backpacks/pouches/pockets/scabbards etc. gives one more dimension to character customization. (bonus points for representing all this graphically) One caveat, though. There''s about a 50-50 split in player tastes on this subject, so allowing players to forego this anal micromanagement stuff in favor of automation would probably be a good idea.
Author
I knew this would happen, one person likes inventory managment and other don''t. This leads me to one conclusion which is, this issue has never seriously been addressed. What i''m saying is is that some people don''t like inventory handling too much probably becuase it''s never been made a fun part of the game. Or it has been made a fun part of the game but not done well.
I was planning on using hex''s as an inventory base unit becuase a hex represents 3D space with a 2D perspective (Draw a cube and rub out the lines in the middle and you have a hex). Because hex''s are like the half way point between 2D and 3D. Maybe instead of having a set space to lay down items you have a box on the side of the screen with a number in it which represents hex''s. When you place an item in a blank space then the number in the box ticks down accordingly to the size of the item. This way you can handle 3D without having to display things in 3D.
The problem i forsee is that if you bring space and weight into the one inventory system then it just becomes awkward for the player/yes? Maybe it could be done more remotely thus being able to make it more complex. Time to brain storm!
Spyder, how does the rollover system work in Discworld?
I love Game Design and it loves me back.
Our Goal is "Fun"!
I was planning on using hex''s as an inventory base unit becuase a hex represents 3D space with a 2D perspective (Draw a cube and rub out the lines in the middle and you have a hex). Because hex''s are like the half way point between 2D and 3D. Maybe instead of having a set space to lay down items you have a box on the side of the screen with a number in it which represents hex''s. When you place an item in a blank space then the number in the box ticks down accordingly to the size of the item. This way you can handle 3D without having to display things in 3D.
The problem i forsee is that if you bring space and weight into the one inventory system then it just becomes awkward for the player/yes? Maybe it could be done more remotely thus being able to make it more complex. Time to brain storm!
Spyder, how does the rollover system work in Discworld?
I love Game Design and it loves me back.
Our Goal is "Fun"!
Ironicly our team has just began discussion of this issue. After reading the above post and thinking about the discussions we''ve had to date, I would agree that this is one system in RPGs/MMORPGs that is overlooked or that doesn''t get much in the way of improvement over what has been done before.
The best inventory that I have seen is UO, although flawed, its good points outweigh the bad.
The good
* It allows you to stack certain items.
* You can place items anywhere in the backpack (no grids or boxes)
* You place other bags inside of it.
* The backpack can be placed anywhere in the game screen (as is most of the UI components in the game)
The bad
* Hard to get to items of interest.
* Not easy to drop items (not really an inventory issue, more of a game issue)
* Unreallistic in terms of what can be placed in a backback (eg. A large bardiche shouldn''t be placed into a backpack, unless it is a new foldable version)
* And the amount of items that can be placed in the inventory.
I think your on the right track by incorporating space and weight or just plain volume would be a welcome change in the typical inventory screens that we have become acustom to.
One way that I have been thinking about solving this issue is this. Every object in the game would have a weight and a volume assigned to it and the backpack(s) would have a volume limit set for it. The weight issue is based on the characters strength or what ever system you use to determine the amount of weight a character can carry before becoming incummbered.
What are some other ideals on how to work inventory?
Another point that I think needs to be handled is the ability to change weapons with a bit more ease. Having to open a backpack and pull out a bow and drop you sword and shield in is slow and tedious. If you think about it... a character that used a bow and a sword would probably have a sling to hold his bow on his back and a sheath to place his sword. I know this isnt a matter of inventory, but, developers have made it to be.
Anyone have any thoughts about how to better handle the weapons changing?
Dave "Dak Lozar" Loeser
The best inventory that I have seen is UO, although flawed, its good points outweigh the bad.
The good
* It allows you to stack certain items.
* You can place items anywhere in the backpack (no grids or boxes)
* You place other bags inside of it.
* The backpack can be placed anywhere in the game screen (as is most of the UI components in the game)
The bad
* Hard to get to items of interest.
* Not easy to drop items (not really an inventory issue, more of a game issue)
* Unreallistic in terms of what can be placed in a backback (eg. A large bardiche shouldn''t be placed into a backpack, unless it is a new foldable version)
* And the amount of items that can be placed in the inventory.
I think your on the right track by incorporating space and weight or just plain volume would be a welcome change in the typical inventory screens that we have become acustom to.
One way that I have been thinking about solving this issue is this. Every object in the game would have a weight and a volume assigned to it and the backpack(s) would have a volume limit set for it. The weight issue is based on the characters strength or what ever system you use to determine the amount of weight a character can carry before becoming incummbered.
What are some other ideals on how to work inventory?
Another point that I think needs to be handled is the ability to change weapons with a bit more ease. Having to open a backpack and pull out a bow and drop you sword and shield in is slow and tedious. If you think about it... a character that used a bow and a sword would probably have a sling to hold his bow on his back and a sheath to place his sword. I know this isnt a matter of inventory, but, developers have made it to be.
Anyone have any thoughts about how to better handle the weapons changing?
Dave "Dak Lozar" Loeser
Having a hot drop key - press the key and what you are carrying is dropped to the ground and a rapid loadout hot key - pressing keys 1-0 select a new loadout for the character to use, if possible.
To keep things in perspective, you never saw John Wayne dig into his saddle bag in the middle of a gunfight to get his spare six shooter out, he drop the one he was carrying and grabbed the nearest gun he thought was loaded or pulled another out of his vest. Anyways, unless it is slung over the back a weapon should have to be on the character''s belt to be used.
Some RPGs have taken a turn for the worse in this regards and started borrowing from FPS games. How silly does it look to see a guy with 9 different weapons in his back pack and change them out in 2 seconds. It just isn''t done in real life. Usually the person drops his back pack and pulls out his favorite weapon to start a fight with. If he has the time, he might scrounge in his backpack to ready for the next fight. The current method takes a realistic ammount of time to ready the next weapon, aside from the quick drop key.
Allowing the character to have only two sword like weapons (one on hip, one slung on back), a bow, a few daggers, some other things on your belt (like potions), and a shield for quick swapping is pretty realisitic, any more is just plain silly. So having hot swap inventory slots and regular volmetric or weighted space for the rest of the junk. For those space freaks, you could always add bags/packs/pockets of holding, within limits.
To keep things in perspective, you never saw John Wayne dig into his saddle bag in the middle of a gunfight to get his spare six shooter out, he drop the one he was carrying and grabbed the nearest gun he thought was loaded or pulled another out of his vest. Anyways, unless it is slung over the back a weapon should have to be on the character''s belt to be used.
Some RPGs have taken a turn for the worse in this regards and started borrowing from FPS games. How silly does it look to see a guy with 9 different weapons in his back pack and change them out in 2 seconds. It just isn''t done in real life. Usually the person drops his back pack and pulls out his favorite weapon to start a fight with. If he has the time, he might scrounge in his backpack to ready for the next fight. The current method takes a realistic ammount of time to ready the next weapon, aside from the quick drop key.
Allowing the character to have only two sword like weapons (one on hip, one slung on back), a bow, a few daggers, some other things on your belt (like potions), and a shield for quick swapping is pretty realisitic, any more is just plain silly. So having hot swap inventory slots and regular volmetric or weighted space for the rest of the junk. For those space freaks, you could always add bags/packs/pockets of holding, within limits.
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