I never said I'd buy the weapon that kills in 5 hits. I don't like the description or the material its made out of. I'll stick with my weapon that kills in 7 hits because it looks better. Now if we were talking 2 vs 7 hits I might consider different but as it is, I just don't like the better weapon...
Although I agree with you, providing the proper balance is not easy. The one uber weapon I might use is one that allows you to strike twice in one attack and other additions as well but there is the chance the weapon will attack you instead
What have been the bad elements of past CRPGs?
This is a great thread =D
I have read most of the gripes and thankfully our game Morning's Wrath, doesnt have too many of them.
However there are a few we can improve on, having read this list, and I will be integrating these fixes =)
I have read most of the gripes and thankfully our game Morning's Wrath, doesnt have too many of them.
However there are a few we can improve on, having read this list, and I will be integrating these fixes =)
All my gripes geared towards the _DESIGN_ (not implementation but design) of a computerized role-playing game tend to trace back to one, underlying problem: The designer confused the symbiology for the actual facts.
The modern conventions of "hit points" and "experience" and such were built to represent something. The biggest mistake any designer will make when computerizing any game concept is that he must make a one-to-one conversion of all the representations instead of following the spirit of the law.
Table-top RPG's were designed for simplicity so that the human players don't need to waste time calculating the centripetal force applied by an arm swinginging a greatsword, how many calories are burned in the process, how much total skin surface was lacerated by the edge, and so forth. They simplified these ideas into "To-hit rolls" and "hit points."
When designing a computerized RPG, the dice conventions can be dropped entirely and the virtues of a computer can take their place.
"Secret of Mana" did an almost sufficient job of abandoning ye olde RPG conventions and capitalizing on the fact that the Nintendo can do stuff that dice simply cannot.
I don't presume to know all the ways this can be done -- this is, of course, the very goal of this game design forum -- but I do know that the very English translations of Victor Hugo's great novels were not converted word-for-word but by overall message. And thus far, I've liked all of the translations I've read.
The modern conventions of "hit points" and "experience" and such were built to represent something. The biggest mistake any designer will make when computerizing any game concept is that he must make a one-to-one conversion of all the representations instead of following the spirit of the law.
Table-top RPG's were designed for simplicity so that the human players don't need to waste time calculating the centripetal force applied by an arm swinginging a greatsword, how many calories are burned in the process, how much total skin surface was lacerated by the edge, and so forth. They simplified these ideas into "To-hit rolls" and "hit points."
When designing a computerized RPG, the dice conventions can be dropped entirely and the virtues of a computer can take their place.
"Secret of Mana" did an almost sufficient job of abandoning ye olde RPG conventions and capitalizing on the fact that the Nintendo can do stuff that dice simply cannot.
I don't presume to know all the ways this can be done -- this is, of course, the very goal of this game design forum -- but I do know that the very English translations of Victor Hugo's great novels were not converted word-for-word but by overall message. And thus far, I've liked all of the translations I've read.
Quote:Original post by Drethon
I never said I'd buy the weapon that kills in 5 hits. I don't like the description or the material its made out of. I'll stick with my weapon that kills in 7 hits because it looks better. Now if we were talking 2 vs 7 hits I might consider different but as it is, I just don't like the better weapon...
Having to whack all of the monsters two extra times can really add up. If you're fighting three monsters at a time, it could be a huge difference between life and death. I wouldn't think that having a cooler looking weapon would be worth the cost of a hundred extra clicks while my head is being bounced from the wall :)
Now if it was something solid, like the weapon swung faster, or it had a higher chance of critical hits, then I might be swayed.
When it takes five seconds to swing an average weapons (sometimes more, sometimes down to 3 seconds) and you have three critters attacking you in Gemstone, you either have the defence to deal with it, find a way to disable two of them or run like hell. Total number of swings (time to kill critter) is usually less importiant than being able to avoid damage while killing said critter.
Does it really take five seconds to swing the weapons? Sometimes more? A Ken and Ryu spinning hurricane kick takes less time! I've never played the game, but it must have some pretty hefty weapons.
In any case, killing a critter 10 seconds faster is way more than worth the price tag of that other weapon.
In any case, killing a critter 10 seconds faster is way more than worth the price tag of that other weapon.
Quote:Original post by Ranger MeldonQuote:Original post by MSWIt's not a matter of not thinking outside the box. Magic should be special. If it's not, then it's not really very magical, is it? I can understand having guild wars over magical misinformation, or whatever. But having everyone (every NPC), no matter how poor or remote, be able to have access to that information seems like a very bad, very unrealistic idea. If you want to have a gameworld where everyone in it knows so much about you before you even meet them that they might as well be omniscient, then you go ahead and do that. Think outside that box! And think outside my wallet.
You already have a means (use of magic to spy) and a motive (need to explore, discover, gather info) ... and hell publishers are already makeing $$$ on selling game guides in addition to the game itself ... so exactly why is it stupid?
~Ranger Meldon~ M.M. .:
Unrealistic? Look, you HAVE access to the internet! Does that make you omniscent? have you seen every webpage? read every document? Would you even want to? of course not! So why would a NPC blacksmith have the knowledge to farm corn from info brokers...and why would a NPC farmer have the knowledge of forgeing weapons?
Author
Quote:Original post by MSW
Unrealistic? Look, you HAVE access to the internet! Does that make you omniscent? have you seen every webpage? read every document? Would you even want to? of course not! So why would a NPC blacksmith have the knowledge to farm corn from info brokers...and why would a NPC farmer have the knowledge of forgeing weapons?
I would try to respond to this, but I'm not even sure what you're getting at here, no offense. What does knowledge of how to farm corn or forge weapons have to do with political and action (deed) information about the player character? It sounds like you're misunderstanding what I'm saying altogether. Or maybe I misunderstood you to begin with, although I doubt it, based on what your actual words were. Try making the above statements a little more clear (and sounding more relevant) and I will do my best to respond. Oh, and if someone else understands what MSW is saying here (and agrees with it) can you please let me know? I could be just being dense or something, but I doubt it. Thanks!
~Ranger Meldon~ M.M. .:
Quote:Original post by Ranger MeldonQuote:Original post by MSW
Unrealistic? Look, you HAVE access to the internet! Does that make you omniscent? have you seen every webpage? read every document? Would you even want to? of course not! So why would a NPC blacksmith have the knowledge to farm corn from info brokers...and why would a NPC farmer have the knowledge of forgeing weapons?
I would try to respond to this, but I'm not even sure what you're getting at here, no offense. What does knowledge of how to farm corn or forge weapons have to do with political and action (deed) information about the player character? It sounds like you're misunderstanding what I'm saying altogether. Or maybe I misunderstood you to begin with, although I doubt it, based on what your actual words were. Try making the above statements a little more clear (and sounding more relevant) and I will do my best to respond. Oh, and if someone else understands what MSW is saying here (and agrees with it) can you please let me know? I could be just being dense or something, but I doubt it. Thanks!
~Ranger Meldon~ M.M. .:
Okay...I'll take this slowly...There is a ton of info about Britney Spears online. If you are one of her fans, you already know this...if not, then you could care less about such info...the key point is you are online, you still have access to this info...So, how would NPCs be any different?
this was entirely related to this statement you made:
Quote:
But having everyone (every NPC), no matter how poor or remote, be able to have access to that information seems like a very bad, very unrealistic idea.
If village A is being tormented by monster rats and the player slays them, well it would go without saying that the residents of village A would be interested to hear that...and by consulting with the mage info brokers, they could all learn it very quickly...This DOES NOT mean all the residents of village B,C,D,E,F have learned this information even though they all have access to the mage info brokers whom would share it if so asked...this is not unrealistic, its entirely plauseable(hell, just think of a Mage News Network given voice by common town criers)...plus the concept of mage info brokers adds story potential well beyond what is typical in CRPGs.
Do you understand now?
Number one gripe about CRPGs: Most of them have very little replay factor.
I play CRPGs, for the most part, because I enjoy the story and want to treat it like an interactive movie or book. I don't play it for the combat, or for the graphics, or for the super cool cutscenes.
However, most games these days just don't have any replay value in their stories. I really enjoyed Baldur's Gate 2 + ToB. Thought it was a brilliant game - but as much as I'd like to replay it, I know that there's very little that would be different on another playthrough.
Even in games such as KOTOR, where you have a 'choice', the developer's gimp it down to a single line of thought. In the original, for instance, no matter how terrible or angelic you had been, the entire 'multiple endings' was chosen in a moment of dialogue a few minutes before the end of the game.
Nonlinearity is still a pipe dream in most cases, it's just being hidden by developers better and better these days.
I play CRPGs, for the most part, because I enjoy the story and want to treat it like an interactive movie or book. I don't play it for the combat, or for the graphics, or for the super cool cutscenes.
However, most games these days just don't have any replay value in their stories. I really enjoyed Baldur's Gate 2 + ToB. Thought it was a brilliant game - but as much as I'd like to replay it, I know that there's very little that would be different on another playthrough.
Even in games such as KOTOR, where you have a 'choice', the developer's gimp it down to a single line of thought. In the original, for instance, no matter how terrible or angelic you had been, the entire 'multiple endings' was chosen in a moment of dialogue a few minutes before the end of the game.
Nonlinearity is still a pipe dream in most cases, it's just being hidden by developers better and better these days.
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