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Android game development?


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#1 Eamonn Rea   Members   -  Reputation: 54

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 09:08 AM

Ok, I'm coming from Lua and LÖVE and want to get into Mobile Game Development. I'm 13 years old and have made a game. I'd like to port this game over to Android: http://love2d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34307

 

I know, the game might be kind of meh, but I'd still like to port it over. Maybe not release it, but just mess around with Mobile Game development.

 

The problem is, I can't find a way to get started with Android Game Development on YouTube/Vimeo/DailyMotion/anything like that. I don't like reading books for those sorts of things. TheNewBoston's tutorials are outdated. Maybe if someone could help me find a tutorial?

 

I don't really like Java, but I can't find anything else to use with Android. Python+Kivy didn't work because I didn't like Kivy. LÖVE-Android is kind of a lost cause, ActionScript+CitrusEngine didn't work because of lack of docs on ActionScript+Software+Docs on CE. C/C++ sucks IMO(I don't like it), and Ruby is kind of meh. If I had to I'd use Ruby, but what I really want is to use Lua.

 

I love Lua! It's awesome!! CoronaSDK looks good, but I couldn't find any tutorials on it!! Like, at ALL!! Corona seems to be the way to go, so I have a few questions on it:

 

1) It is PURE PURE PURE PURE PURE PURE PURE PURE 100% code, right?

2) I can publish to Android + iOS, right?

3) I can make good games with the free version, right?

4) I can integrate GameCenter/ScoreLoop/OpenFeint and Facebook/Twitter/Google+, right?

5) A 13 year old could do this, right? :)

 

Also, I hear (if you are a serious developer) the $500 a year fee for the CoronaSDK is WAYYY worth it. Is this right?

 

So yeah, if I get money from some apps that I made I'd like to make iOS apps, and make money from that. Then if I get money from that I'll get a paid version of Corona and make more apps :)

 

 

Also, now I have questions about Google Play that I couldn't find the answer to!

 

I hear it's $25(or £17 for me(I'm from Ireland)) to publish an app to Google Play. Is this per-app or per-year or per-month or what? I know iOS is £100 a year, which is insane(unless you have the money). I own a Mac(I own several), so I can do iOS development No problem! :D

 

So yeah, thanks for reading. Please don't take a rage-fit at me if some questions here are stupid. I'm new to Mobile Game Development and really want to get my hands dirty! Thanks!

 



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#2 frob   Moderators   -  Reputation: 18955

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 08:33 PM

If you want to make a game for any of the mobile platforms you will need to use tools for that platform.

There are a few cross-platform tools available (in the Forum FAQ) but you will notice that Lua is not one of them. Some of the free tools support Lua script, but they require additional work.




Much of the rest of your post deals with doing business as a youth.


The answers to 2, 3, 4, and 5 are "No, not without an adult."


At age 13, you cannot publish your programs by yourself. Some of the SDKs and development tools also have agreements that cannot be entered into by a minor.

It may not feel like it, but posting apps and games for sale online is doing business. Taxes are involved, contracts (express or implied) are involved, financial regulations are involved, and so on.

At age 13 you will not legally be allowed make the agreements with Apple or Google or Amazon or any of the other major game distributors. You will need a parent/guardian to agree to the forms, to provide bank account information, and to provide tax information. There are ways for it to be done, but in order to do it legally your parents need to be active participants.

Also it costs money for the publishers to provide the service. The fees they charge is actually very small for the business world. When you become an adult you will discover that the fees (and taxes) of the real world cost much, much more. Get your parents involved if you really want to enter the business world.
Check out my personal indie blog at bryanwagstaff.com.

#3 Moe091   Members   -  Reputation: 565

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 11:08 PM

For the agreements you can always just lie and say your older, I'm sure you've already done your fair share of that if you've come this far. 

 

I checked out your game and it looks pretty neat, keep up the good work and I bet you'll have a great future in game development!

 

The one problem you'll have is dealing with all the money related stuff, like taxes or even just getting paid. you'll need a parent or someone to help with that. If you keep trying and being persistant you'll find a way to get it done.

 

I'd honestly suggest just taking the time to learn java if you wanna do android, everything else is gonna be a complicated headache to get working right and to learn without and prior android experience. using java in eclipse with the android plugin is definitely the most hassle free way to work with android, it just means your gonna have to set aside some time to really learn at least basic java before you start porting your game over. There are a lot of free android game engines for java also, I'd recommend libgdx or andengine for you. Libgdx is my personal favorite. Or if you don't want to use an engine check out Mario Zechners android game programming book. I know you don't like books but If you can force yourself to go through a whole book carefully and do everything the auther says to the letter, you'll feel like an expert by the time your done. I used to hate reading technical books too but when I need to learn something quickly and thoroughly I force myself to read a book and make sure I understand every line in the entire book without telling myself "i don't need that," or "I already know that" and skipping over it.

 

thats all I have I'm gettin tired.

 

Good luck and keep being persistant! You have the talent to do some awesome stuff



#4 Eamonn Rea   Members   -  Reputation: 54

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 07:08 AM

For the agreements you can always just lie and say your older, I'm sure you've already done your fair share of that if you've come this far. 

 

I checked out your game and it looks pretty neat, keep up the good work and I bet you'll have a great future in game development!

 

The one problem you'll have is dealing with all the money related stuff, like taxes or even just getting paid. you'll need a parent or someone to help with that. If you keep trying and being persistant you'll find a way to get it done.

 

I'd honestly suggest just taking the time to learn java if you wanna do android, everything else is gonna be a complicated headache to get working right and to learn without and prior android experience. using java in eclipse with the android plugin is definitely the most hassle free way to work with android, it just means your gonna have to set aside some time to really learn at least basic java before you start porting your game over. There are a lot of free android game engines for java also, I'd recommend libgdx or andengine for you. Libgdx is my personal favorite. Or if you don't want to use an engine check out Mario Zechners android game programming book. I know you don't like books but If you can force yourself to go through a whole book carefully and do everything the auther says to the letter, you'll feel like an expert by the time your done. I used to hate reading technical books too but when I need to learn something quickly and thoroughly I force myself to read a book and make sure I understand every line in the entire book without telling myself "i don't need that," or "I already know that" and skipping over it.

 

thats all I have I'm gettin tired.

 

Good luck and keep being persistant! You have the talent to do some awesome stuff

I know Java already, and I have tried LibGDX. Don't kill me for saying this, but it was just a headache. I couldn't get it to display an image, after asking around for a week people said that it worked for them. The ADT plugin for Eclipse: I've tried that, and I think I have it setup right. It shows an Android logo when it starts up, but doesn't actually startup. I've never heard of andengine.

 

And also, thanks for your kind words about my game! It was my first project and I did get a lot of positive feedback on the thread. But I feel like I can do better.

 

And yeah, to get far you do need to bend the truth a little, right? ;) It's like reading the Term's and Conditions: Not everyone does it(though I'm sure a few people do! ;) )

 

 

If you want to make a game for any of the mobile platforms you will need to use tools for that platform.

There are a few cross-platform tools available (in the Forum FAQ) but you will notice that Lua is not one of them. Some of the free tools support Lua script, but they require additional work.




Much of the rest of your post deals with doing business as a youth.


The answers to 2, 3, 4, and 5 are "No, not without an adult."


At age 13, you cannot publish your programs by yourself. Some of the SDKs and development tools also have agreements that cannot be entered into by a minor.

It may not feel like it, but posting apps and games for sale online is doing business. Taxes are involved, contracts (express or implied) are involved, financial regulations are involved, and so on.

At age 13 you will not legally be allowed make the agreements with Apple or Google or Amazon or any of the other major game distributors. You will need a parent/guardian to agree to the forms, to provide bank account information, and to provide tax information. There are ways for it to be done, but in order to do it legally your parents need to be active participants.

Also it costs money for the publishers to provide the service. The fees they charge is actually very small for the business world. When you become an adult you will discover that the fees (and taxes) of the real world cost much, much more. Get your parents involved if you really want to enter the business world.

 

Actually, my parents are very active in this. I'm trying to get my dad into programming, and they are active and are willing to support me(and have done) the whole way through this(Since 10). 

 

Thanks for the replies and answers guys! :D



#5 latch   Members   -  Reputation: 633

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 09:43 AM

I just reviewed a game by a 13 year old on my blog: http://unkandapps.blogspot.com/2013/06/strategic-labyrinth-lite.html

 

B4A is 'easy' for Anddev and it can handle even advanced tasks like hardware acceleration, database connectivity, etc. and the support is far above par. The game in my signature was written in B4A.



#6 kburkhart84   Members   -  Reputation: 1570

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 10:25 AM

You could look up GameMaker Studio.  It makes the different platforms easier to code for.  It has a history of being known as a "toy" and "kids" thing, but in reality it is much more powerful than that, especially recently.  The IDE is where you load in all of your resources(and create some too).  You won't need to code in loading sprites or sounds, and the room editor is where you say what things are where.  This program is designed for 2d games, but there are a bit of 3d capabilities too, though 2d is probably best for speed, ease, and considering the mobile market.

 

The actual game coding can be done with a simplistic drag&drop kind of thing, but it is somewhat limited, and even though it can do much, the window gets cluttered if you have too many blocks, so you will likely want to learn the GML scripting language.  It has similarities to Java/Javascript/C++, so you could probably pick it up quick, and once you do, you can do about anything with it.

 

Another point is that at the moment, if you have the Master Collection, which right now costs $499, you get the best version of the program, with all of the current exports, and any future exports they create this version.  That means you get Windows, Linux, MacOS, iOS, Android, HTML5, Tizen, Windows 8(different from regular windows for the desktop integration), and Windows Phone 8, along with any future exports this version comes out with.  Also, it is a one off purchase, not a yearly thing, and the next version is pretty far off, as it will be a complete re-write.

 

Another thing I can say is that the company(yoyogames) that bought this software has made great improvements since they did so.  Originally, it was designed to only work on windows, though it was pretty good for that.  Yoyo has turned it into something else.  They have made the actual code much faster and added many features.  Just a few days ago, they have released a beta version that includes code compilation and shaders.  The normal versions at the moment don't do any shaders, so some special effects are harder to do, but now, you will be able to write OpenGLES shaders, which can be in use for anything that gets drawn, so you can do many special effects.  This also will upgrade the 3d side of things, because with shaders, you can create your own materials instead of the default diffuse one that gets used in 3d mode.  And the code compilation is going to be great too.  The GML code currently gets interpreted at run-time, similar to Java's code interpretation, and so is relatively slow.  Once they are done with this, that GML code will be compiled to native code, which would be like C++ on windows, Obj-C for iOS, etc... so the speed will be top-notch.





#7 Eamonn Rea   Members   -  Reputation: 54

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 03:10 AM

You could look up GameMaker Studio.  It makes the different platforms easier to code for.  It has a history of being known as a "toy" and "kids" thing, but in reality it is much more powerful than that, especially recently.  The IDE is where you load in all of your resources(and create some too).  You won't need to code in loading sprites or sounds, and the room editor is where you say what things are where.  This program is designed for 2d games, but there are a bit of 3d capabilities too, though 2d is probably best for speed, ease, and considering the mobile market.

 

The actual game coding can be done with a simplistic drag&drop kind of thing, but it is somewhat limited, and even though it can do much, the window gets cluttered if you have too many blocks, so you will likely want to learn the GML scripting language.  It has similarities to Java/Javascript/C++, so you could probably pick it up quick, and once you do, you can do about anything with it.

 

Another point is that at the moment, if you have the Master Collection, which right now costs $499, you get the best version of the program, with all of the current exports, and any future exports they create this version.  That means you get Windows, Linux, MacOS, iOS, Android, HTML5, Tizen, Windows 8(different from regular windows for the desktop integration), and Windows Phone 8, along with any future exports this version comes out with.  Also, it is a one off purchase, not a yearly thing, and the next version is pretty far off, as it will be a complete re-write.

 

Another thing I can say is that the company(yoyogames) that bought this software has made great improvements since they did so.  Originally, it was designed to only work on windows, though it was pretty good for that.  Yoyo has turned it into something else.  They have made the actual code much faster and added many features.  Just a few days ago, they have released a beta version that includes code compilation and shaders.  The normal versions at the moment don't do any shaders, so some special effects are harder to do, but now, you will be able to write OpenGLES shaders, which can be in use for anything that gets drawn, so you can do many special effects.  This also will upgrade the 3d side of things, because with shaders, you can create your own materials instead of the default diffuse one that gets used in 3d mode.  And the code compilation is going to be great too.  The GML code currently gets interpreted at run-time, similar to Java's code interpretation, and so is relatively slow.  Once they are done with this, that GML code will be compiled to native code, which would be like C++ on windows, Obj-C for iOS, etc... so the speed will be top-notch.

 

Maybe I wasn't clear, but GameMaker is, well, a Game Maker. Why would I use that? GML, like you said, I can use, but even so. Why would I use it!? I don't like the idea of GameMaker and never have. It'd be different if you wanted to make a high-res CoD game, then you could understand using UDK or something, but why would I use GameMaker? It's just a stupid answer.

 

 

I just reviewed a game by a 13 year old on my blog: http://unkandapps.blogspot.com/2013/06/strategic-labyrinth-lite.html

 

B4A is 'easy' for Anddev and it can handle even advanced tasks like hardware acceleration, database connectivity, etc. and the support is far above par. The game in my signature was written in B4A.

 

B4A is paid, thought it does look good :) Defiantly better than suggesting Game Maker angry.png

Thanks for suggesting it! I'll keep it in mind!!



#8 jbadams   Senior Staff   -  Reputation: 17274

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 05:03 AM


Maybe I wasn't clear, but GameMaker is, well, a Game Maker. Why would I use that? GML, like you said, I can use, but even so. Why would I use it!? I don't like the idea of GameMaker and never have.

[...]

It's just a stupid answer.

Why would you want to use it?

 

Because it's a simple-to-use and very capable platform with the ability to export for your chosen target platform and a proven track-record of successful games including "Legend of Fae" and "Serious Sam: the Random Encounter" amongst others.

 

If you don't want to use Game Maker that's your personal preference and is perfectly fine, but there's no need to rudely dismiss the suggestion as "stupid".  It's a valid answer worthy of consideration, and you might respond with a more polite "thanks, but I'd prefer something else" in future.

 

 


For the agreements you can always just lie and say your older

I really wouldn't recommend this, especially if your parents are involved and happy to help you out.  You might get away with it, but if they were to find out your agreements would be invalidated: you would not be paid, and you could even be taken to court to recover any monies already paid and potentially even for additional damages.

 

There's simply no need to do things in a dodgy and illegal way if you have the valid legal alternative of having your parents make the agreements on your behalf as frob suggests.  "Bending the truth" could end up costing you money and damaging your reputation with publishers and other developers.

 

 


I love Lua! It's awesome!!

You might also consider Moai SDK.  It's free, supports your target platform (amongst a handful of others), allows you to program in Lua, and there are some pretty cool games "made with Moai".  The weakest point for now is probably the documentation, but the developers are making it a priority and it seems to be improving all the time.

 

 


1) It is PURE PURE PURE PURE PURE PURE PURE PURE 100% code, right?

Yes, you don't have to use point & click editors or anything, you can create games with Corona just by writing code.

 


2) I can publish to Android + iOS, right?

Yes, although as mentioned above you should have your parents handle the required agreements for you.  Note also that you will have to join the developer programs for any programs you intend to target, which often involves a fee -- US$99/year for iOS, and IIRC a one-off US$25 fee for Google Play.  Submitting to the iOS app store also requires access to an Apple Mac, either physically or through a service such as MacInCloud.

 


3) I can make good games with the free version, right?

Of course, although your game may not perform as well with native code generation only included in the enterprise licence.  Available plugins are also restricted to a smaller selection for the free starter licence.

 


4) I can integrate GameCenter/ScoreLoop/OpenFeint and Facebook/Twitter/Google+, right?

I believe all of those are supported, yes.  Note that some of these may involve legal agreements, which as above you should probably have your parents handle on your behalf.  You may also require a paid licence -- check which plugins are included with the free licence on the website.

 


5) A 13 year old could do this, right?

There's no reason you shouldn't be able to learn all the necessary skills and if you put in the work you'll be able to make great games.  As mentioned above, you really should have your parents handle legal agreements and payments on your behalf, or you would be risking losing all your income and potentially damaging your ability to work with some of these providers once you're older.

 

Note that all of the above is to the best of my recollection: if you decide to go with Corona please check the website carefully -- perhaps have your parents also look to be sure you haven't missed anything -- before purchasing anything based on these responses.  You might also read over the Corona FAQ.

 

Corona is very capable and very popular, and they provide excellent learning resources (this page is where you'll find the tutorials you're looking for).  There's also a training DVD (in addition to a couple of books) available from Amazon, but I can't comment on the quality.

 

 


I hear it's $25(or £17 for me(I'm from Ireland)) to publish an app to Google Play. Is this per-app or per-year or per-month or what?

It's a one-off payment, as explained in this short FAQ answer.

 


I know iOS is £100 a year, which is insane

It's actually pretty reasonable, and on-par or cheaper than plenty of other publishing options.  Whilst nothing to scoff at, $100 isn't a huge amount of money to an adult, and is really nothing to anyone doing business.

 

 

 

Hope that helps! smile.png



#9 kburkhart84   Members   -  Reputation: 1570

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 10:13 AM


 

Maybe I wasn't clear, but GameMaker is, well, a Game Maker. Why would I use that? GML, like you said, I can use, but even so. Why would I use it!? I don't like the idea of GameMaker and never have. It'd be different if you wanted to make a high-res CoD game, then you could understand using UDK or something, but why would I use GameMaker? It's just a stupid answer.

 

Just, WOW....

 

If you are going to be that closed minded, you are not going to be very successful in this business.  One thing you learn, is to the best tool for the job.  Frankly, the title can throw you off, but GameMaker IS one of the best tools for the job, easily on par with Unity, Corona, or anything else out there.  I think the above poster clarified that.  But hey, it's your eventual career, not mine.  If you want to spend your time coding things that can already be done, and done well enough, that is your decision.  I'd rather get something finished, and quickly.





#10 marcClintDion   Members   -  Reputation: 431

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 04:54 PM


but why would I use GameMaker? It's just a stupid answer.

 

Dude, that's just rude.  These forums are supposed to be civilized and helpful.  Please act accordingly.  I realize that maybe you are a bit snippy because of some of the harsh response you received by people but it's best not to let people like that get to you, otherwise you become like them and then more people will fall into the same bad habits.  When that happens, this whole site will become useless.  You will also find that this attitude will carry out into your personal life and you will end up having very real problems because of this. 

 

If you don't like somebody's suggestion then try to politely offer your opinion on why you feel this way, just please don't resort to name-calling.


Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.


#11 latch   Members   -  Reputation: 633

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 06:42 PM

I would probably rule out Gamemaker Studio if you wanted to make things other than games, but the advantage is you write the code once and it ports to many platforms with little effort. I personally would have considered using it if I wasn't already deeply entrenched in B4A. I think its pretty cool.

 

HTML5 is up and coming and you can write the code once and put it in different wrappers for the different platforms, but the support as not as seamless.

 

This article talks about coronaSDK:

http://ipad.about.com/od/iPad-App-Dev/fr/Review-Corona-SDK-For-iPhone-And-iPad-Development.htm

It says it's limited but if you are devoted to LUA, it may be the way to go for you.

 

The actual java code for my game, Hail of Gunfire, is 4800 lines of code. My B4A code that I wrote is only 2500 lines and the java code is ugly gibberish.

 

I ported all my games and apps to BlackBerry and made $3000 and got 6 devices from them for free. I also had a client pay me $500 to write a upd transmitting status board app.

 

Not bad for spending $100 to get started January 2012.

 

Here is the link if you are interested.


Edited by latch, 08 July 2013 - 06:34 PM.


#12 jennycommer   Members   -  Reputation: 105

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 11:00 PM

i think you are  to very much eager to start android game development  but you should have first of all refer all this functionalities and also refer some readtmade application in android so you get more idea about it and definately you can do it ..so refer online tutorials and here i suggest some apps for you which i have

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/find-my-love/id588641925?ls=1&mt=8

http://satisnet.com/portfolio.html#mobile-design


Edited by jennycommer, 07 July 2013 - 11:00 PM.


#13 latch   Members   -  Reputation: 633

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 07:40 AM

These days, I'm making Html5 games in Construct 2 and wrapping them with B4A to publish to Google Play. Way easier- I published 4 games in a week and a half!






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