It has to do with what professional developers select as a language.
Already there has been a large migration to C# and it continues to grow. One of the main reasons is productivity.. we can get out almost twice as many projects as we previously could.
C# is the ideal langauge for the Longhorn API. If you don''t believe me just go look at the API and spec.. it takes at least 3 times longer to write an application in C++ for Longhorn compared to C#.
And even then if you wrote in unmanaged C++ you have hurdles such as slow-downs and security worries.
Please don''t take me as someone that thinks C++ will go away. On the contrary I believe C++ will always remain more widely used than C# because it is an all-purpose language. You can use C++ easily on all operating systems, consoles, etc.
But when you can develop applications in 1/2 to 1/3 of the time in C# compared to C++, that is what professional developers will use.. because it is a business after all.
Is c++ gonna die
quote:Original post by Psychorquote:Original post by Imperilquote:Original post by jmg5quote:Original post by Nervoquote:Original post by jmg5
BTW, is there a university that still teaches C?
That question is fundamentally equivalent to asking if a university teaches any math or english classes.
For some reason I was under the impression that most universities taught nothin' but C++. I was about to give up all hope.
[edited by - jmg5 on January 11, 2004 9:13:54 PM]
Actually the majority of the top schools don't teach C or C++, they in fact teach Java, Scheme, SmallTalk, etc like I previously mentioned.
I know for a fact that even if you look at the top 20-30 schools you would be hard-pressed to find one that teaches C/C++.
Actually, many top universities don't teach any programming languages at all. The courses might require various languages, but you're expected to be able to pick up different languages reasonably quickly in your own time, without much explicit tuition.
odd.
University of Waterloo - mainly Java
MIT - mainly Scheme
Berkely - mainly Java
Those have been the top 3 schools worldwide for quite some time now. This year the University of Warsaw was top in Computer Science, and Java is the main course as well.
Sure in University there are barely any programming courses. The schools that have a bunch of courses on various programming languages are the "cheaper" or "low end" schools. Any good school is going to focus on design patterns, engineering, architecture, etc.
Sure languages are not a focus, but C/C++ is still rarely taught on the top schools worldwide.
[edited by - Imperil on January 11, 2004 9:26:57 PM]
a) ANY professional developer uses an Obfuscator (free with VSNET 2003, also there are other commercial versions), and with the best obfuscation than no, you are unable to decompile.
Did you know they have software you can download to fix your "obscurers"
Did you know they have software you can download to fix your "obscurers"
quote:Original post by Imperil
But when you can develop applications in 1/2 to 1/3 of the time in C# compared to C++, that is what professional developers will use.. because it is a business after all.
Please explain. Unless C# comes with a magical physics and rendering library, this 1/2 to 1/3 stuff is nonesense.
quote:Original post by cowsarenotevilquote:Original post by Imperil
But when you can develop applications in 1/2 to 1/3 of the time in C# compared to C++, that is what professional developers will use.. because it is a business after all.
Please explain. Unless C# comes with a magical physics and rendering library, this 1/2 to 1/3 stuff is nonesense.
Wrong it is not nonsence, and I will explain.
First off we are talking about Windows application development on the future operating systems, not games.
BUT
Yes Longhorn does have a brand new rendering library for Windows!! and the .NET languages with managed code take advantage of that.
At work I developed in C++ professionally for YEARS. My whole team was asked to switch to C# for a test run awhile ago, and we have stayed with the language since then.
Our productivity shot up 39% and we get more done than ever. When you work on enterprise projects with a team there are always bugs, and most will be related to memory and buffers =] C# takes care of this and due to that fact sometimes MONTHS of development time are shaved off.
I have nothing against C++ as I have said.. I have been using it since a year or so after Bjarne first brought it mainstream... and it was slow and buggy back then compared to what we have now.
I mean even look at the DirectX SDK code. In C# you might need 10-15 lines of code instead of 200-300 lines of code in C++ =]
quote:Original post by DevLiquidKnight
a) ANY professional developer uses an Obfuscator (free with VSNET 2003, also there are other commercial versions), and with the best obfuscation than no, you are unable to decompile.
Did you know they have software you can download to fix your "obscurers"
Wrong again =]
The best obfuscators you would need about 1000 machines running 24/7 for years to crack =]
Sorry to burst your bubble. If you use a cheap solution, than yeah there is a "slight" possibility of being decompiled. Please note though that the majority of the time you do not get the full code, and there are tons of bugs.
I mean lets not be stupid here. Decompiling C# code that was obfuscated with a good software package gives you about the same results as decompiling a C++ program.
[edited by - Imperil on January 11, 2004 9:42:54 PM]
quote:Original post by Imperil
Please note that C# is the future of development on Microsoft operating systems.
Yes, that statement is very bold. Besides if it is I'll be sure to be the first one to be one of the first to defeat the obscuring techniques just cuz its trying to kill c++ according to you -.- cuz im good at that stuff.
quote:Original post by Imperil
The best obfuscators you would need about 1000 machines running 24/7 for years to crack =]
Thats why we can crack RSA eh
and
blowfish
and
md5
and
des..
the list goes on
there is no "safe" methodbecause there is always 1 person 5 steps ahead
[edited by - DevLiquidKnight on January 11, 2004 9:47:34 PM]
quote:Original post by Imperil
I mean lets not be stupid here. Decompiling C# code that was obfuscated with a good software package gives you about the same results as decompiling a C++ program.
How good are the C# decompilers when you run them on normal
compiled C# code? Just wondering. An example would be
even better.
Kami no Itte ga ore ni zettai naru!
It''s my understanding that schools teach a variety of langs. each suitable for specific curriculum. In each curriculum, teachers pick a lang that is easiest to use but which exposes all the features the teacher wishes to use for conceptual work. Decide what tasks you need to do and then pick the lang. that suits those tasks. Having said that, gamedev is the last industry that accepts new tech or tools. It took forever for the gamedevs to get the OO in C++ and majority still don''t utilize it in places they should. One problem is that gamedevs can''t afford to hire OO folks nor spend time in learning it because of economics. So the knowledge isn''t propagated to gamedev quickly. C# can''t procede in gamedev if these things aren''t resolved. It''s not like switching to C# with make OO easier than in C++. It''s the way of how to build sw in OO that needs to be taught not lang. specifics.
quote:Original post by Imperilquote:Original post by cowsarenotevilquote:Original post by Imperil
But when you can develop applications in 1/2 to 1/3 of the time in C# compared to C++, that is what professional developers will use.. because it is a business after all.
Please explain. Unless C# comes with a magical physics and rendering library, this 1/2 to 1/3 stuff is nonesense.
Wrong it is not nonsence, and I will explain.
First off we are talking about Windows application development on the future operating systems, not games.
BUT
Yes Longhorn does have a brand new rendering library for Windows!! and the .NET languages with managed code take advantage of that.
At work I developed in C++ professionally for YEARS. My whole team was asked to switch to C# for a test run awhile ago, and we have stayed with the language since then.
Our productivity shot up 39% and we get more done than ever. When you work on enterprise projects with a team there are always bugs, and most will be related to memory and buffers =] C# takes care of this and due to that fact sometimes MONTHS of development time are shaved off.
I have nothing against C++ as I have said.. I have been using it since a year or so after Bjarne first brought it mainstream... and it was slow and buggy back then compared to what we have now.
I mean even look at the DirectX SDK code. In C# you might need 10-15 lines of code instead of 200-300 lines of code in C++ =]
Firstly, since when aren''t games applications? Secondly, what is this new rendering library, and where can I learn about it. And I don''t see why anyone using C++ should need more than 10-15 lines to initialize DirectX.
By the way, increasing productivity by 39% is far from dividing development time in half/by one third.
This topic is closed to new replies.
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